moneysavingexpert allowing trolling, removing posts, agendas, schill moderation

[El Gringo]

wantmemoney
Why they don't want customer spend caps

Virgin Mobile/T-Mobile like any company want their customers to spend as much as possible.Intentional spend, unauthorised, accidental spend, mistakes, scams and fraud are alll billable revenue streams for Virgin Mobile/T-Mobile.Customer requested spend caps would lose Virgin Mobile/T-Mobile these revenue streamsunauthorised, accidental spend, mistakes, scams and fraud.this is an example of one of the VirginMobile/T-Mobile revenue streams that would be hit.It's mostly complaints from parents whose children are being ripped off on T-Mobile/Virgin Mobile's Payforit premium rate billing platform.http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Calls.aspx/700those complaints represent the tip of a multi-million pound scandal.

# 2gjchester
Why say it's Virgin / T-Mobile, no network caps spend with the exception of Tesco and t-Mobiles U Fix it plans.

# 3MissKeith
Spending caps presumably cost money and as someone who uses their phone responsibly, I'm not willing to pay a higher rate to appease the ignorant minority. I'm a big believer of personal responsibility so you can keep your proposed cap idea thanks all the same, I don't need one.

# 4MissKeith
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney because the vast majority of the premium rate 'payforit' fraud is occurring on their networks.http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Calls.aspx/700only pedophileesque type scammers that specialise target children, fraudsters and greedy share holders would be against the idea of consumers being able to protect their and their children's accounts from unintended spend.which group do you belong to?
I belong to the group who wouldn't be daft enough to give a child a contract phone. PAYG exists for a reason, it's not like consumers don't have a choice.


# 5Notmyrealname
Quoteriginally Posted by MissKeith I belong to the group who wouldn't be daft enough to give a child a contract phone. PAYG exists for a reason, it's not like consumers don't have a choice.
I belong to the group who actually bothers parenting their children and teaches them about responsibility. I gave my son a contract phone with inclusive minutes and texts. In all the time he's had it he went over by £5 once when splitting up with his girlfriend. He informed us before we got the bill and paid back the difference.


# 6MissKeith
Quoteriginally Posted by Notmyrealname I belong to the group who actually bothers parenting their children and teaches them about responsibility. I gave my son a contract phone with inclusive minutes and texts. In all the time he's had it he went over by £5 once when splitting up with his girlfriend. He informed us before we got the bill and paid back the difference.
That's fair enough, I've got no problems with kids having contracts in theory, as long ad all parties involved are aware of the consequences and are happy to take responsibility for them. I can't stand parents who refuse to hold their hands up and admit their little darlings have used a service which they have to pay for.


# 7wantmemoney
Quoteriginally Posted by MissKeith I'm a big believer of personal responsibility
that's good to hear and who do you believe should accept 'responsibility' for ensuring customer accounts are protected from theft and fraud
Quoteriginally Posted by MissKeith Spending caps presumably cost money and as someone who uses their phone responsibly, I'm not willing to pay a higher rate to appease the ignorant minority.
so you believe the 'ignorant minority' who are being defrauded on the Virgin/T-Mobile Networks should be subsidizing you.http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Calls.aspx/700


# 8gjchester
Is it just me or has half this thread been removed and it makes little sense now?


# 9Tony5101
No its not just you!There seems to have been rather a lot of over-zealous modding going on recently in quite a few threads.


# 10wantmemoney
really strange. It's almost as if all of you were responding to a different thread title.'Virgin Mobile/T-Mobile: Why they don't want customer spend caps'
Quote:
Quoteriginally Posted by MissKeith I belong to the group who wouldn't be daft enough to give a child a contract phone. PAYG exists for a reason, it's not like consumers don't have a choice.
Quoteriginally Posted by Notmyrealname I belong to the group who actually bothers parenting their children and teaches them about responsibility. I gave my son a contract phone with inclusive minutes and texts. In all the time he's had it he went over by £5 once when splitting up with his girlfriend. He informed us before we got the bill and paid back the difference.
Quoteriginally Posted by MissKeith That's fair enough, I've got no problems with kids having contracts in theory, as long ad all parties involved are aware of the consequences and are happy to take responsibility for them. I can't stand parents who refuse to hold their hands up and admit their little darlings have used a service which they have to pay for.

it's almost like you people were responding to a thread where some irresponsible parent had asked your advice on parenting skills.


# 11 MissKeith
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney really strange. It's almost as if all of you were responding to a different thread title.
'Virgin Mobile/T-Mobile: Why they don't want customer spend caps'
it's almost like you people were responding to a thread where some irresponsible parent had asked your advice on parenting skills.
You've deleted your posts as you can see by what I've quoted, don't try to turn this round on me. You're quite obviously a coward if you can't own your words.Have I helped?

# 12wantmemoney
what a moneysaving charmer
Quoteriginally Posted by MissKeithYou've deleted your posts as you can see by what I've quoted, don't try to turn this round on me. You're quite obviously a coward if you can't own your words.
I think you will find the thread was 'moderated' because of the abusive way some of you people were acting....and still are.....but at least other forum members can see what type of help they can expect off you in the future.

# 13 MissKeith
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney I think you will find the thread was 'moderated' because of the abusive way some of you people were acting....and still are.....but at least other forum members can see what type of help they can expect off you in the future.
I wasn't aware you were asking for help. Apologies for the coward comment as I naturally assumed that you'd removed it due to the heavy editing you have done but it's funny you think I'm the abusive one when you have compared a business to a !!!!!phile (which I think is an incredibly hurtful and insensitive remark) and I'm not the one who has had any posts removed by mods.

# 14mazza111
Although VM don't have a cap, you can set a credit limit on them. Have used this on one of my contracts with them. Need to have a clear bill to set it quite low though.

# 15visidigi
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney I think you will find the thread was 'moderated' because of the abusive waysome of you people were acting....and still are.....but at least other forum members can see what type of help they can expect off you in the future.
ahem, ill just leave this here then...
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney or llttle Jonny has had all his credit stolen by pedophileesque type business people that specifically target 'little Jonny' to steal his credit.Only pedophileesque type crooks, fraudsters and greedy share holders would be against consumers being able to protect them selves or their children.which group do you belong to?
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...ostcount=15you = pot, kettle, black.

# 16wantmemoney
Quoteriginally Posted by visidigiahem, ill just leave this here then...
your post appears as detached from the topic of the thread as the other posts soif sticking half a post somewhere gives you pleasure then.......

# 17MissKeith
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney your post appears as detached from the topic of the thread as the other posts soif sticking half a post somewhere gives you pleasure then.......
Except you posted a very similar comment on here which I quoted up thread. It was a disgusting comparison and you should feel ashamed for posting it so many times.You cannot complain of abuse when you have made such remarks and attempted to back other users into agreeing with "!!!!!philesque businesses". Ugh what a HORRIBLE thing to say!

# 18wantmemoney
Quoteriginally Posted by MissKeithIt was a disgusting comparison
good grief ..it was intended to be a disgusting comparison.... individuals and 'business' that intentionally target young children with premium rate scams are disgusting.....how would you describe them?companies like T-Mobile and Virgin Mobile are also disgusting for knowingly helping them with their Payforit revenue share billing platform.look at these complaints before you pass judgement on my use of adjectives.http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Calls.aspx/700To get back on topic that is one of the real reasons these companies (all the Networks) don't want customer accounts protected from unintentional spendI personally believe successive Governments are more to blame than the Networks. The Networks have a profit motive...our bloody Governments were only interested in staying in power for as long as possible.

# 19thegoodman
I think you have got sick mind. See a doctor.The mobile phone is a tool, you need to use it correctly. With your system of total control over people by the Government where do you stop?The Facebook, msn etc can harm some, so stop them?The android phones damaged by malware send scams and collect personal info such as name, address etc , stop them?Some tv program's encourage children to send a text, stop them?I can think myself, I don't need the government control over me

# 20eranou
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney good grief ..it was intended to be a disgusting comparison.... individuals and 'business' that intentionally target young children with premium rate scams are disgusting.....how would you describe them?companies like T-Mobile and Virgin Mobile are also disgusting for knowingly helping them with their Payforit revenue share billing platform.look at these complaints before you pass judgement on my use of adjectives.http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Calls.aspx/700To get back on topic that is one of the real reasons these companies (all the Networks) don't want customer accounts protected from unintentional spendI personally believe successive Governments are more to blame than the Networks. The Networks have a profit motive...our bloody Governments were only interested in staying in power for as long as possible.
T-Mobile offer a feature called "charge to account bar". when activated it blocks premium rate text messages which can be activated easily on request through customer services or online.I activated it at the start of my contract and have never been charged for a premium rate service.If they are so evil and hell bent on scamming children then why do they offer this when they have no obligation to?

wantmemoney
Virgin Mobile/T-Mobile: Why they don't want customer spend caps
Quoteriginally Posted by thegoodmanI think you have got sick mind. See a doctor.
your post is completely off topic but....so I believe that individuals and business that Intentionally target young children to harm and scam those young children are disgusting.http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Calls.aspx/700I also described them as 'pedophileesque'.I also believe that staff that work for T-Mobile, Virgin Mobile and the other Networks and business who continually and publicly (on forums) blame the parents and children for the problem (because they are irresponsible) to be equally reprehensible.That's what I believe and you believe I 'See a doctor'.

# 22zagfles
Quoteriginally Posted by eranou T-Mobile offer a feature called "charge to account bar". when activated it blocks premium rate text messages which can be activated easily on request through customer services or online.I activated it at the start of my contract and have never been charged for a premium rate service.If they are so evil and hell bent on scamming children then why do they offer this when they have no obligation to?
That's a bit like a bank offering a "service" to stop people taking money out of your account which you haven't authorised. This shouldn't be a "service", this should be implicit. My account is with the bank, and I expect them not to let third parties access my account without proof I've authorised it. And if they ever do, I expect a refund off the bank, not be told to chase the third party.

# 23wantmemoney
@zagfles I couldn't agree more....excellent comment
Quoteriginally Posted by eranouT-Mobile offer a feature called "charge to account bar".
to 'offer' something you have to first actively promote it's existence and availability....if you don't you are not offering anything

# 24eranou
Quoteriginally Posted by zagfles That's a bit like a bank offering a "service" to stop people taking money out of your account which you haven't authorised. This shouldn't be a "service", this should be implicit. My account is with the bank, and I expect them not to let third parties access my account without proof I've authorised it. And if they ever do, I expect a refund off the bank, not be told to chase the third party.
No its not like that at all that's like saying your bank should stop all transaction just in case one of them happens to be fraudulent.Activating the feature disables the ability to use premium rate text services including ones that the customer may want to use e.g texting into radio stations, competitions, charities etcI think a big issue would be the negative press that would come about if this feature was activated on default and a child tried to call their parent using the 0800REVERSE type service in an emergency and that parent wouldn't be able to receive the call if this feature was activated.

# 25eranou
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney @zagfles I couldn't agree more....excellent comment to 'offer' something you have to first actively promote it's existence and availability....if you don't you are not offering anything
When I log into MyT-Mobile online it gives a description of what the feature is and the ability to add it free of charge.They do promote its existence but the customer also has to take some initiative themselves and add it.

# 26wantmemoney
Quoteriginally Posted by eranouWhen I log into MyT-Mobile online it gives a description of what the feature is and the ability to add it free of charge.They do promote its existence but the customer also has to take some initiative themselves and add it.
hmm...you give the impression T-Mobile are positively bending over backwards to protect their customers accounts from theft and fraud.Just out of interest you wouldn't happen to know what percentage of this type of 'debiting' T-Mobile pocket?

# 27eranou
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney hmm...you give the impression T-Mobile are positively bending over backwards to protect their customers accounts from theft and fraud.Just out of interest you wouldn't happen to know what percentage of this type of 'debiting' T-Mobile pocket?
I'm not saying they bend over backwards and have parades through the streets with it on banners but they do make the information available on the website,Its up to the customer to read it and inform them of their preferences.So please answer my question, if T-Mobile are to blame more than any of the other networks then why do they bother having this feature at all when they are under no obligation to?

through out the whole thread there was a clear agenda to cause arguments and blame irresponsible parents and children for any problems with problems with phone bills and complete refusal to accept the Networks had any responsibility for protecting customer accounts against fraud or theft.

The thread was locked off and hidden without any warning or explanation.

my advice is don't waste your time going moneysavingexpert forum for help or advice unless you want abuse **** poor 'industry' biased advice and unwanted 'parenting advice'

[El Gringo]

wantmemoney
why is a certain moderator hiding particular posts

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...?t=3916143fair moderation or industry schillQuote:http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...=3912041Virgin Mobile/T-Mobile: Why they don't want customer spend capsVirgin Mobile/T-Mobile like any company want their customers to spend as much as possible.Intentional spend, unauthorised, accidental spend, mistakes, scams and fraud are alll billable revenue streams for Virgin Mobile/T-Mobile.Customer requested spend caps would lose Virgin Mobile/T-Mobile these revenue streams unauthorised, accidental spend, mistakes, scams and fraud.this is an example of one of the VirginMobile/T-Mobile revenue streams that would be hit.It's mostly complaints from parents whose children are being ripped off on T-Mobile/Virgin Mobile's Payforit premium rate billing platform.http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Calls.aspx/700those complaints represent the tip of a multi-million pound scandal.
would moderator who edited deleted and moved this thread have the common decency and good manners to explain what they are playing at.Using a term like 'pedophilesque' to describe criminals that specialise in targeting children surely cannot be against forum rules.

# 2vuvuzela
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney Using a term like 'pedophilesque' to describe criminals that specialise in targeting children surely cannot be against forum rules.
It might not be against a specific rule but it is utterly ludicrous to describe companies as such and potentially libellous if any specific companies are named.

# 3vuvuzela
Oh, and to describe whoever locked the thread and deleted your deluded ranting as an 'industry shill' is also utterly ludicrous. There are good and honest ways to go about complaining and yours is certainly not one of them. (I suppose you'll now in your paranoia think I also work for the 'mobile industry' in some sort of criminal capacity )

# 4wantmemoney
Quoteriginally Posted by vuvuzelaIt might not be against a specific rule but it is utterly ludicrous to describe companies as such and potentially libellous if any specific companies are named.
if you people took the time to read the thread instead of making silly incorrect vacuous remarks you will see I was referring to individual criminals that specialise in targeting young children with phone scams.For the life of me I can not understand why there is a group on this forum that are so vehemently against measures that would help these children.The fact that those measures may or may not hit certain companies profits should not be allowed to be an issue.Quote:would moderator who edited deleted and moved this thread have the common decency and good manners to explain what they are playing at.Using a term like 'pedophilesque' to describe criminals that specialise in targeting children surely cannot be against forum rules.

# 5vuvuzela
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney if you people took the time to read the thread instead of making silly incorrect vacuous remarks you will see I was referring to individual criminals that specialise in targeting young children with phone scams.
For the life of me I can not understand why there is a group on this forum that are so vehemently against measures that would help these children.The fact that those measures may or may not hit certain companies profits should not be allowed to be an issue.
No-one is against measures to help children. It is SOLELY the way you go about presenting yourself and your pathetic sensationalism. Do it nicely and I suspect you will get a lot of support. Carry on making stupid remarks about 'pedophilesque companies' and you will simply get peoples backs up.

# 6wantmemoney
Quoteriginally Posted by vuvuzelaCarry on making stupid remarks about 'pedophilesque companies' and you will simply get peoples backs up.
it was not aimed at any specific company it was aimed at people who scam children.if that gets your back up then I suggest the problem is with you
Quote:would moderator who edited deleted and moved this thread have the common decency and good manners to explain what they are playing at.Using a term like 'pedophilesque' to describe scammers that specialise in targeting children surely cannot be against forum rules.

# 7torbrex
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney would moderator who edited deleted and moved this thread have the common decency and good manners to explain what they are playing at.
This site is not moderated but the abuse team will respond (sometimes) to specific complaints and reports about a thread and they will edit or remove a post or thread as they see fit to protect the site owners against possible legal action and they will do so without the need for explaination (most of the time)Suck it up and move on.Waiting for my princess to come along.

# 8wantmemoney
'moneysavingexperts' with anti consumer protection agendas
Quoteriginally Posted by torbrexThis site is not moderated but the abuse team will respond (sometimes) to specific complaints and reports about a thread and they will edit or remove a post or thread
OK that explains why so many other posts with topics relating to protecting customer phone/bank accounts that have been targeted by the same group with abusive unhelpful posts have also been deleted, moved or locked off....not really very healthy
Quote:would moderator who edited deleted and moved this thread have the common decency and good manners to explain what they are playing at.Using a term like 'pedophilesque' to describe scammers that specialise in targeting children surely cannot be against forum rules.
please allow the person that decided to move my post answer or at least respond to the question.

# 9cajef
Why start another thread when you have already have one running here on the same subject?http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...7#post52604517I

# 10ashleypride
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney please allow the person that decided to move my post answer or at least respond to the question.
Its not going to happen, while I don't particularly agree with the way it works here, it's their site they can do what the heck they like. If you don't like it, find another forum.

# 11wantmemoney
'moneysavingexperts' with anti consumer protection agendas very helpful and interesting I'm sure
Quote:would moderator who edited deleted and moved this thread have the common decency and good manners to explain what they are playing at.Using a term like 'pedophilesque' to describe scammers that specialise in targeting children surely cannot be against forum rules.
please allow the person that decided to move my post answer or at least respond to the question.

# 12 marleyboy
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney it was not aimed at any specific company it was aimed at people who scam children.if that gets your back up then I suggest the problem is with you
Having not read the original thread, it would appear to me the only one getting their backs up about it is YOU, as such I suggest the only person who does have a problem with it is YOU.MSE have decided for whatever reason, the thread should go, they are NOT under any conditions to explain the why, where and when for their reasons in doing so. You, much like the rest of us, have no control or say in what stays or goes in a thread, Martin himself will remind members that if they are not happy with the decisions the team make over the forums, there are plenty of other forums out there where you can express yourself more freely.Do feel free to find a more acceptable forum to air such a singular opinion.

# 13wantmemoney
do forum rules allow abuse and trolling

Quoteriginally Posted by marleyboyHaving not read the original thread, it would appear to me the only one getting their backs up about it is YOU, as such I suggest the only person who does have a problem with it is YOU.MSE have decided for whatever reason, the thread should go, they are NOT under any conditions to explain the why, where and when for their reasons in doing so. You, much like the rest of us, have no control or say in what stays or goes in a thread, Martin himself will remind members that if they are not happy with the decisions the team make over the forums, there are plenty of other forums out there where you can express yourself more freely.Do feel free to find a more acceptable forum to air such a singular opinion.
what the hell are these people rattling on about...more to the point what is the point of rattling
Quote:http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...t=3912041would moderator who edited deleted and moved this thread have the common decency and good manners to explain what they are playing at.Using a term like 'pedophilesque' to describe scammers that specialise in targeting children surely cannot be against forum rules.
please allow the person that decided to move my post answer or at least respond to the question.

# 14cajef
Quoteriginally Posted by wantmemoney what the hell are these people rattling on about...more to the point what is the point of rattling
More to the point what is the point of repeatedly posting the same thing over and over again, just what response do expect you have been told that the forum team can remove any post they wish and do not have to answer to you.

# 15wantmemoney
Quoteriginally Posted by cajefMore to the point what is the point of repeatedly posting the same thing over and over again, just what response do expect you have been told that the forum team can remove any post they wish and do not have to answer to you.
not that it's any of your business but the clue is secretly hidden in the bleeding title of this forum Site Feedback
Quote:http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...t=3912041would moderator who edited deleted and moved this thread have the common decency and good manners to explain what they are playing at.Using a term like 'pedophilesque' to describe scammers that specialise in targeting children surely cannot be against forum rules.

# 16 cajef
Well looking at your past history where you have had posts removed previously it is hardly surprising given your abrasive and confrontational style that posts have been deleted from your thread.Anyway that is just my opinion which as this is an open forum I am entitled to whether you like it or not.I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

this was posted in Forum 'Feed Back' and the question asking why threads on consumer protection topics were allowed to be targeted by forum trolls before being removed without explanation were completely ignored - apart from the torrent of insults and abuse that was being allowed to be thrown against the person asking the question.

The thread and a subsequent thread asking the same question was also deleted with no explanation.

moneysavingexpert allowing trolling and removing posts - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums - Forum - Money Saving Expert
forums.moneysavingexpert.com › ... › Site Feedback14 hours ago - assuming this forum is Site Feedback then. Why is the moneysavingexpert forum allowing trolls to continually and repeatedly cause trouble in order to have an excuses to remove posts. or are you going to

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=3918191
MSE Forums Message
Invalid Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

So this is what appears to be happening. There appears to be a group or groups on Moneysavingexpert that intentionally target any post or poster that is negative to that groups interest (eg telecoms). They will gang up and cause arguments and make personal remarks to try and get a response that they can claim is offensive to them. This then is reported to their 'friendly' forum moderator who will use it as an excuse to delete the negative thread or post.

This pattern can be seen time and time again on Martin Lewis's moneysavingexpert forum.

Again my advice is unless you are looking for **** poor 'industry' biased advice and abuse steer clear of the moneysavingexpert forum.

[Cormoran]

@El Gringo,

I followed the 'Wantmemoney' thread on MSE but only after the posts had been removed. At first it just seemed to me that the posts were made by people that were ignorant of the perils of scams and unsolicited porn but I agree that it does seem a little organised.

Think back a few years, remember how Buzby and his friend from Orange posted abusive remarks without any action from the CAG mods, who only removed the response from us. The same happened on the Vodafone forum when we had the campaign for blocking premium rate texts. It seems that the premium rate industry are now doing their best to try to discredit anyone who shows how they operate.