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  #1  
Old 18-June-2002, 10:23
MegaTsunami MegaTsunami is offline
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Question Dilemma - new job offer. Do I accept ?

Hi.

Yes, at last, old MT has been offered a new job !

I'm off to see the head of the department at 11am today so shouldn't be sat here typing this (man, what a nervous stomach I have right now !).

I currently work and have done in the stockroom of a catalogue shop for 5 years (this November) on a part time 16 hour contract, earning around 75 a week. I pay 11 a week rent and 10 a month in council tax for my rented flat.

I am stuck on afternoon shifts at work and hate it. There is no chance of full time work - everyone is on p/t contracts.

I have no more holiday time to come off between now and December 31st.

I am on holiday for a week in July.

This new job offer is for the local council and I am on their temporary work register. Haven't been lucky in getting any work with them yet so was glad to be on this register !

This job is for a minimum of 3 months, maybe extended to 6 months.

It is full time and pays 202 a week (more than I have ever earnt and MORE than my current job would pay IF they ever let you work full time).

It's not exactly a career move going from a stockroom to a council's distribution/mail room BUT it gets me out of my current job, and the money is decent (while I'll be there).

My rent will go up to full @ 38 a week and the council tax will be around 40 a month, so I'll pay straight out 48 a week outta this new wage.

But do I give up on a job I have done for nearly 5 years and got nowhere for a well paid but probably just as demeaning temporary 3 month job with more money ? It's at least a foot in the door of the local council surely ?

Help. Opinion ASAP please !

Sh*te ! Gotta get changed and look smart !

Look out toilet, here I come - again..... rumble rumble
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  #2  
Old 18-June-2002, 10:33
tony
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take it, use the 3/6 months to look at the market.

what can you lose?
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  #3  
Old 18-June-2002, 10:47
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Behemoth Behemoth is offline
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If you hate your current job so much and you've got the opportunity to do so, tell your current employers to stick their job and the one thats offered to you. It's actually a good situation to be in because what ever you deicde you still have a job.

My adivce though, take the better paying one, you may be offered a permeinat full time job, you never know.

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  #4  
Old 18-June-2002, 11:42
Steed Steed is offline
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Well done MT,

I agree with Tony & Behemoth, take it. Jobs like that quite often turn into something more permanent, also councils are large employers with many depts, if you get on OK with job they may well have transfers available to depts that interest you more later. In any case you will be well placed to hear of any other vacancies that come up with the council.

An added note, don't tell your present employer to stick it. Leave with good grace, tell them you are aiming to improve your prospects, if worst comes to worse later on, you will be able to reapply for your old job, not ideal but better than nothing.

Good Luck.



Steed
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  #5  
Old 18-June-2002, 11:47
tony
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an excellent last point Steed, always leave on a good not, as you say you may want to go back or find you need a reference
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  #6  
Old 18-June-2002, 13:04
STS
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Default Yes....

Hi,

Everyone seems to agree for once me too... Go for it, seize the moment and break free from the drudgery which holds you back. I wish you all the luck in the world...

STS
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  #7  
Old 18-June-2002, 13:46
fabienne00
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No doubt about it! GO FOR IT, man!!!
It's your opportunity to break free!
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  #8  
Old 18-June-2002, 15:01
gillbender
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Good Luck Mega!
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  #9  
Old 18-June-2002, 15:52
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silver silver is offline
 
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yeah - what steed said, tell them you have enjoyed working there an you would stay if they offered you a full time role

Sil
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  #10  
Old 18-June-2002, 16:24
wokit
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Hi
I agree with the other postees

Go for it

Best of luck

Wokit
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  #11  
Old 18-June-2002, 18:40
squidgy
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Hey, that's a good deal more than what I'm earning. Perhaps I'll ask at my local council too ....

I offer three main bits of advice.
  • Like everyone else says, take this new job.
  • Don't worry too much about any notice period on your old job, but don't be nasty to them. You might want to go back in the future.
  • Go to the doctor and get him to prescribe mebeverine for that irritable bowel syndrome of yours.

I can see that you're concerned about two things. One is whether you're physically capable of doing the hours or not. Well, hey, deal with that hurdle when you get to it. If it's because you find that you're suffering from insomnia or afternoon tiredness, believe me, I'm able to offer lots of advice about that - though admittedly I'm still learning about it now, so some of it will be in the form of referrals to other resources who are better qualified than me.

The other is that you're concerned that since it's temporary, you'll be out of a job. That's why it's important to part on good terms from current employer.

Failing that, hey, you'll be able to claim jobseeker's allowance at that point - assuming it's been six months since you left the job you're leaving now. If not, chances are you'll get away with it anyway - because the employment services tend not to check information about jobs before your most recent one so closely. In the unlikely event that JSA really does cause a problem, then getting yourself to the doctor and getting a sick note so that you can get income support is a possibility too, though admittedly I've never done this.

Hope that helps. By all means post again if you have more specific questions.
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  #12  
Old 18-June-2002, 20:50
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DavidMad DavidMad is offline
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Congrats !

Take it.

I work for a large company and the postie people, whilst they aren't the biggest earners by any stretch, always seem to be the happiest and least stressed.

Deliver the mail,
go home,
come back the next day,
repeat 4 times,
have a weekend,
repeat.

It's almost impossible to take worries home with you, the job stays at work and you stay sane.

You'll also meet a lot of people and get the gossip nice and early.
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  #13  
Old 18-June-2002, 21:16
MegaTsunami MegaTsunami is offline
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Wow ! Thankyou all for your kind words of encouragement over this

I have...... drum roll ...... ACCEPTED this new job offer and officially start on Monday 1st July !



Only had half an hour to get back and write a quick "I am giving you 7 days notice etc" letter to my current employers - what stress that was - before I started work !

Mixed feelings from those at work. Some like the Store Manager who I handed the letter to, hasn't said a damn thing which annoyed me, but other people are amazed Ive finally "going" after 5 un-rewarded years !

My Stockroom boss, well, her jaw dropped when she found out and pleaded with me to stay, even offering me what I originally wanted when I started this "sentence" nearly 5 years ago - morning hours, so I can go for walks etc and go to college in the afternoons, but I'd have to start at 6am and bring the deliveries in...... no way I said, too little too late.

Anyway, I finish on Tuesday 25th, and have actually managed to get a few days off for myself before this new job starts !

I can now even watch England on the TV next Wednesday dinner, in the semi-final of the World Cup if they beat Brazil this Saturday !!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, what a day. Something liberating about handing in your notice ain't there !

THANKYOU ALL.
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  #14  
Old 18-June-2002, 21:20
gillbender
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Brazil this Saturday !!!!!!!!!!!
Actually it's friday Mega


Well done in getting the job
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  #15  
Old 18-June-2002, 21:21
Steed Steed is offline
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Way to go MT

Steed
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  #16  
Old 18-June-2002, 21:29
MegaTsunami MegaTsunami is offline
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Oops ! I knew we played on Friday, I just messed up that's all !

Something weird about getting up to watch a football match at 7:30am isn't there..... !

Thanks again
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  #17  
Old 19-June-2002, 03:34
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GrumpyFooker GrumpyFooker is offline
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Bloody hell Mega!
Yer bloody full well knew you were goin to accept the bloody job didn't you?
Why the bloody hell do yer come on here lookin for bloody attention?
In fact the only bloody time yer come on ere is to ave a go at someone or bloody moan moan moan, bloody well moan.
Aint it obvious to a bloody moron that this bloody job offer is better than the bloody job yu've got now?
Or do ya really bloody need advice?
Get a bloody life man and stop looking for bloody attention and post more bloody edifying things in the future will ya?

Yer cheeky bloody monkey!

Gfooker
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  #18  
Old 19-June-2002, 08:31
fabienne00
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Super!
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  #19  
Old 19-June-2002, 09:11
katie
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Well done, Mega!



Katie.
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  #20  
Old 19-June-2002, 12:03
squidgy
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Question Returning to work after having a baby

Sure I've been working for employment agency, and sure I lost a job but got another one in the time this thread's been going on. It's a bit better paid this time though. Well actually it might fall through yet, because they want me to go to an interview this afternoon, but hey, I reckon it's a cert.

Mind you, whilst I was there to find out more about it, I had to wait, because there was an employee on the phone with a very complicated query about their accrued holiday pay.

So, whilst I was waiting, I had a look at one of their leaflets, harping on about how wonderful it is to work for this organisation. One thing I particularly remember is something to do with the right to return to work after having a baby. If you have been working for them for over a year, but leave to have a baby, then it seems that you can exercise a right to return to work. And if you do this, they guarantee to find work for you.

Hmmm. It's not very often that employment agencies guarantee to offer work. Could it be that there has been some change in legislation recently that forces employers to do this?

Here's what I'm thinking. People have said that it's best if MT leaves his current employer on best of terms, so as to maximise the chance of being able to go back in the future.

But I'm wondering if it's possible to go one better than that. My idea is that if MT's current employer wants to know why he wants to leave, then he doesn't tell them that the fact he's got a new job has got anything to do with it. Instead, he tells them that it's because he's having a baby.

Then, if this new job blows out, and MT chooses to go back to the previous employer, then they might be obliged to accept him again by law.

Course, I'm not sure if that would actually work. Do they ask for proof of having babies, or can you make up an imaginary baby and get away with it? In fact, does anyone know what the rules actually are, or even if any such rules exist? Thanks.
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  #21  
Old 19-June-2002, 12:32
Steed Steed is offline
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Squidgy, Squidgy, Squidgy.

Things like that are for the person who actually has the baby, I don't think making a baby counts.



But I would advise regular practise in case the rules change

Steed
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  #22  
Old 19-June-2002, 12:36
squidgy
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Damn. I've just thought of the obvious flaw in my plan.

Course, if you really do have a baby, then you'll be able to prove it by showing your child's birth certificate, without necessarily having to bring the baby itself to their premises one day. But I was hoping that if you tell an employer that you're having a baby, then they might take your word for it.

Snag is, though, if a new employer then approaches your existing employer for a reference, then that's kinda going to blow your cover. Oh well ...


All the same, I'd still be interested to find out what the law states about right to return to work. Thanks.
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  #23  
Old 19-June-2002, 13:16
squidgy
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@ Steed

I mean, true, but seriously - (or at least as serious as this idea actually has a chance of getting) - I believe that legislation has been changed recently to introduce paid paternity leave rights. For one thing, blokes sometimes used to feel resentful if ladies could get benefits that they would never be entitled to, just by dropping a sprog.

And secondly, employers sometimes used to discriminate in favour of men and against women, on the grounds that women were a maternity leave risk, and that employing a man is therefore more cost effective than employing a woman. So - paternity leave rights would not only make men better off in terms of cash, but would also mean that women are more likely to be treated equal to men in the workplace at the same time. That was a brilliant idea, and it's amazing no-one took it that seriously before.

So I thought for just a moment that the same thing might apply here, to this right to return to work.

But then you're right, I'd be surprised if it does .... clearly I'm going to have to read up about this one.
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  #24  
Old 20-June-2002, 07:36
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Ian Ian is offline
 
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Yay ! Well Done MT

Posty sounds like a good job, you get to meet loads of people in the company, and get to hear all the gossip !

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  #25  
Old 21-June-2002, 21:48
MegaTsunami MegaTsunami is offline
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Thanks again all

I ain't no seahorse you know squidgy !

Actually, I haven't told a soul I am going to another job, they all think I've just quit as I have had enough and they all think I'm mad for just leaving, nice to hear peoples opinions though, especially people who have worked in the same building as me over the last 5 years but never really get to speak to !

Anyway, there IS some bad news coming my way......

The store manager told me I will have to pay some money back to them as I have been paid until June 30th (we always get the money in our bank accounts on the 20th and payslips on the 20th of each month), and as I am leaving on the 25th, I naturally owe them a bit back, fair enough. But thats only Weds 26th, Thurs 27th & Friday 28th. However, I only work 4 days a week so one of those days WOULD have been my ROTA day off, so I only now owe them say for example money back for the Thursday & Friday (as Wednesday is my usual day off). I don't do Saturdays.

Follow me ? So, I owe them just 2 days pay back (= 2 days x4 hours).

However, I have also been told that as I am leaving in the first HALF of the year (Jan-June), I am only entitled to HALF of my holiday leave which is 20 days.

So, they tell me I will only get paid for HALF of that = just 10 days.

Well, I have already had 14 days so far and am now expected to pay them back for these 4 apparent "over" days I have had....

B*LLSH*T ?!?! YES / NO ?

It doesn't state this ANYWHERE in my contract. Nowhere at all.

I was only told this bull after handing my notice in.

I am NOT paying them back anything. I will fight this.

Anyone clued up on empoyment law here please ASAP ?

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  #26  
Old 21-June-2002, 22:03
tony
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think they are right MT, certainly about the days that you leave before the end of the month.

would also tend to agree on the holiday thing

however they must be pretty hard to ask for it, would have thought after 5 years you were owed a bit of good will,

is there not a manager you could have a quite word with?
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  #27  
Old 21-June-2002, 23:01
fridgebuzz
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Congrats on the new job MT

My advice. They can do this - let it go.

Let me get this right. You earnt 75 for 16 hours.

so they want 2*4 hours back. Uhh.....8hrs......which = 37.50.

Is it worth the aggro
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  #28  
Old 21-June-2002, 23:20
MegaTsunami MegaTsunami is offline
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Thanks you two.

I'm not gonna squabble about these extra 2 days they have "overpaid" me for until the end of the month, I can accept that.




It's the holiday time i really want to fight them over :-

As a company in January they make you book every one of your 20 days holiday there and then even if you aren't planning on going anywhere - you have to choose ALL 20 days off.

They are now saying that because i quit in the first 6 months of the year, i am only entitled to half my days (10 of 20) and that because i have already had 14 paid days off from January to June they demand i pay them back for 4 of those days.

I think this is totally wrong and unfair, as it is not in the contract, and they do not warn you of this when you book it off in January, and they didnt even warn me of this the day i gave in my notice - they waited til the next day.

Why should i have to pay THEM 75 for 4 paid days holiday off i had last month

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  #29  
Old 22-June-2002, 00:54
squidgy
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Hmmm, icky one. Sounds like they are actually right though. Holidays get pro-rata'd in your final year. You can check out the Working Time Directives leglislation if you like, I think you'll find that they're right on that one. If you have a written contract but but it doesn't make adequate provision for holidays, then basic statutory Working Time Directive rules apply - which means, yep, they're in the right.

Having said that, this is a reason why monthly paid jobs usually require one month's notice for you to leave - because that gives them a chance to ensure they only pay you up to you leave, and take any over holidays back out again. When they pay weekly, they usually don't bother about this. So I'm surprised that they haven't made any fuss about the short notice you've given.

Quick summary of the rules as I'm led to understand it.

The number of days you have a statutory right to holiday pay for is equal to the number of days you normally work each week multiplied by four - in your case, that's sixteen. An employer is allowed to give more than this, but can't give less. There's no statutory requirement to pay bank holidays - that is, bank holidays can come out of your normal annual holiday pay.

When you leave, your employer is obliged to pay any accrued but unclaimed holiday pay from the start of the holiday year. Your entitlement for the first and final partial years will be pro-rata'd. This is not affected by any failure on your part to serve any notice period, or any other breach of terms you may commit.

To secure a claim for holiday pay during the year, you must give at least twice as much notice as the length of time you want to take - for example, if you want one week off, you need to give two week's notice. If you don't give this much notice, then your employer doesn't have to honour it at all, though they can if they want to. If you do, then your employer is still allowed to reject it, but must give you at least as much notice as the length of time you want to take off. For example, if you give them two week's notice that you want to take a week off, then they must let you know within a week if they refuse it.

You can take unpaid leave, but this can't be deducted from your holiday entitlement. Only paid leave can be deducted.

You do not have any right to unclaimed holiday pay at the end of the year, or in the following year, though the employer can pay it if they want to. Sometimes, this may mean that you have to quit your job near the end of the holiday year to force the issue of getting your holiday pay.

When you start a new job, you accrue holiday pay from the first day, but you don't have a right to claim it until you've been there at least thirteen weeks. If you leave before thirteen weeks, you don't have a right to any of the holiday pay you have accrued. This also means that if the holiday year ends before you have been there thirteen weeks, you won't have any right to any accrued holiday in that first partial year. However, in all these cases, the employer is allowed to honour it if they want to.

Different workers in the same company or department will not necessarily have the same holiday year end dates. Sometimes an employer puts everyone on the same holiday year end dates, so that the accountant doesn't have to faff about with unclaimed staff holiday entitlement accruals on the balance sheet in the end of year accounts, but sometimes they put different staff on different year end dates, to avoid the tendency for everyone to want to take all their holidays at the same time, near the end of the year, and threaten to quit if they don't get it. If the holiday year dates are not specified in your contract, then your holiday year starts on the anniversary date of starting your job.

Pay in lieu of holidays not taken - an employer is allowed to pay this if they really want to, but they are not allowed to deduct it from your current year's holiday entitlement. This means that if your employer pays you in lieu of holidays not taken in the current year, but you leave later on in the same year, then they are legally obliged to pay it again. Yep, twice over. This has been known to happen to employers who didn't get themselves clued up about Working Time Directives before being hauled up in front of an employment tribunal by an ex-employee. In practice, this means that employers sometimes make discretionary payments in lieu of holidays not taken in previous years - since they're not obliged to pay this anyway, it won't get them into any trouble - but they are highly unlikely to make payments in lieu of holidays not taken in the current year. You would be well advised not to bank on payments for unclaimed holidays in the current year being made in following years, though. It's better to threaten to quit just before the end of the year, unless your contract specifically gives you a right to it.

Be warned that if your employer allows you to carry forward unused holiday entitlement from a previous year, and gives you paid time off for it, it's possible that they might subsequently change their minds and decide that the holidays they have already paid during the current year are to come out of the current year's entitlement instead of the previous year, and that they don't want to honour carried forward entitlement from the previous year after all, unless your contract forbids them from pulling this one on you. If you do get holidays from a previous year in addition to all your current year's holidays, then you shouldn't consider it "safe" money until the end of the current year. Ideally, you should try to negotiate for a payment in lieu of previous year holiday not taken instead, because that way, the money is yours straight away, and they can't touch it later. They might reject that too, though, so it's better still not to get into this situation in the first place.

It works the other way round too, though. If your employer paid you more holidays in a previous year than you were entitled to, then they cannot deduct this from your current year's entitlement, and they cannot carry forward a negative holiday entitlement into the current year. Again, you can enforce that in a tribunal if they mess you about, though again, this may involve actually leaving the job, due to the employer's legitimate right to reject holiday requests during their notice period if you don't leave.

Your employment contract may give you rights in addition to this, such as a right to carry holidays forward into following years, or additional holiday entitlement above the statutory requirement (eg bank and public holidays), but it can't take any of these statutory rights away, and any clause which does will be unenforceable.

I think that's pretty much covered everything! Course, it might have changed since I last checked ....

(important footnote - although I've said that quitting your job may sometimes be necessary to enforce your holiday pay rights if you're unlucky, unfortunately it won't wash with jobseeker's allowance. It might scare an employer all the same if they've put a lot of dosh into your training, but it's not unthinkable that an employer who wants to wriggle out of redundancy payments might do it by messing you about on holidays, by rejecting all your holiday requests out of hand. There's not a lot you can do about it when this happens, unless anyone knows different.)
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  #30  
Old 22-June-2002, 01:10
squidgy
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Hmmm, have read MT's post now.

It seems that that booking of 20 days in January is not enforceable. You say they make you do it - but exactly how far do they push you? You don't have to do it - and you're still entitled to claim later on. What does it say in your contract? First time I've heard of anything like this, to be honest.
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