Go Back   The Scream! > ISP FORUMS > Broadband Internet Access

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22-February-2004, 17:57
silver's Avatar
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 12,177
Exclamation ADSL migration - what is it and why you should care

put simply, ADSL migration is the method BT wholesale (who provide most of the UK underlying ADSL infrastructure) can use to allow 'seamless' ADSL migration between different ISPs.

say for instance you have ADSL with ISP_one and which to swap to ISP_another, if both support the BT wholesale migration process you can swap between providers by paying 30 quid (approx) and the swap over can be done the same day (so little downtime).

migration, if supported, works by getting something called a CBUK number from your current ISP (this is a unique identifier for your particular ADSL connection). Once you have the CBUK you give it to the ISP you are trying to migrate to and they contact your current ISP and arrange the handover of your connection.

If the ISP you are leaving does not allow migration they can 'hold' you connection, meaning that in order to swap providers you have to ask them to de-provision your connection. Then to be connected with a new provider you have to have you line checked again and and ADSL have to be re-provided. This process will leave you with no ADSL for upto 2 weeks while the swap takes place. It is also potentially more expensive for you because the new ISP may charge for the ADSL provision (around 50 quid). Whether an ISP supports migration is totally upto the ISP, note that is is easy for an ISP to allow migration (it costs them no money to allow it - perhaps some slight admin overheads).

Oftel (now ofcom) are trying to get broad agreement to allow migrations between any ISPs, at the moment an ISP can choose not to release your line, effectivly you are then stuck with the ISP unless you are willing to be without ADSL for 2 or more weeks.

It's not entirely clear which ISPs allow ADSL migration, for instance some may allow you to migrate to them - but do not allow you to migrate away from them., this in my view is the worst of all possible situations, you don't know you're stuck till you try and move away.

In the short term the thing to do is ask any ISP you may be thinking of joining whether they support migration (both 'to' and 'from') and if you get stuck with an ISP not allowing your migration then complain to ofcom and the ISPA and post about it on public forums.

I note that http://www.adslguide.org.uk now specifies whether an ISP supports migration* - this is quite a recent addition and full marks to them for adding this important differentiator which allows people to make more informed choices

Offhand - I know tiscali do not support adsl migration and neither do AOL (actually this has changed - AOL do now allow migrations - apaprently) - both these ISPs are also 12 month contracts which is quite rare now

I believe freeserve have recently changed their position and now do support migration (outbound only) - so it shows things are changing

In closing,. my advice is to pick an ISP that is not a 12 month contract and allows ADSL migration,.. only when the customer has real choice and freedom to change providers will you be assured of continued quality service,. if the ISP starts to go downhill you have the option of swapping to another !

Sil

* it appears they don't list this information for all ISPs - so if it says 'unknown' then email adslguide asking if they can find out and update their list,. also contact the ISP if it's at all unclear if they do or don't support migration.

Last edited by silver; 25-July-2004 at 15:02.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22-February-2004, 18:11
silver's Avatar
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 12,177
Default

here's a link to the broadband migrations group on the old oftel site - http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archi...band/index.htm

I can't find the updated information on the ofcom site, I have emailed ruth, she confirms the group is still meeting but that no recent minutes have been posted..

Sil
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 25-February-2004, 17:42
silver's Avatar
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 12,177
Default

just to link up,.

my own experiance with tiscali (who do not allow adsl migration) was that I was without an ADSL connection for 5 weeks(!) while ADSL was deprovisioned and re-provisioned with another provider..

this was largly due to complete incompetence on tiscalis part who totally messed up the line de-provision

related <thread>:ADSL swap to another provider - tiscali ADSL cbuk issues condensed

Sil
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 26-June-2004, 20:57
Mr Pedantic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hi Sil

Originally posted by silver
just to link up,.

my own experience with tiscali (who do not allow adsl migration) was that I was without an ADSL connection for 5 weeks(!) while ADSL was deprovisioned and re-provisioned with another provider..

this was largely due to complete incompetence on tiscalis part who totally messed up the line de-provision

related <thread>:ADSL swap to another provider - tiscali ADSL cbuk issues condensed

Sil
Are you not in a cable area? did you not consider?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 26-June-2004, 21:07
silver's Avatar
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 12,177
Default

yeah - have cable + adsl (ntl 150k) but unfort cable don't do fixed or multiple IP (unless you pay way too much!).

Happy with both and will prolly ditch the cable soon - tho it is handy as a backup as I work from home

Sil
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-July-2004, 13:45
silver's Avatar
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 12,177
Default

looks like things are slowly improving on the adsl migration front, thanks to Luke (PlusNet ISP Contact) here's some info about a trial to reduce the time to migrate between providers

There is a trial going on at the moment which speeds up the migration process by about 3 weeks, so the current SLA for migrations (on the trial) now takes about 5-7 working days.

New Migration Process

Participating ISPs

All migration requests in to or out from PlusNet operate in the same way as before, unless the customer is moving from or going to an ISP who has signed up for the Pilot. The Pilot is designed to speed up the migration process significantly, from a minimum lead time of 21 days to 7 days. These ISPs who have signed up for the Pilot are:


BT Broadband

Griffin Internet

izR Solutions

Mailbox Internet

Pipex Internet

Prodigy Internet

Spitfire Network Services

VNL

Zen Internet

and of course PlusNet

MAC Key Codes

What you may find customers asking for is a MAC key (Migration Authorisation Code), in addition to their CBUK number, if they are planning on moving their ADSL service from us to a new provider who is on the Pilot.

Standard Migrations

Any migrations from any other provider are dealt with in the standard way. This also applies where the MAC key cannot be obtained from the provider. Early indications show that BT Broadband and Pipex are unwilling or unable to generate these codes for their customer moving to us, or claim they are not part of the Pilot. Only Zen Internet have shown any co-operation with us so far. It is hoped this may change as their respective customer support agents are brought up to speed."
now if only ofcom would force ISPs to allow migrations...

Sil
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 25-July-2004, 14:59
doomreaper
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ADSL migration - what is it and why you should care

Offhand - I know tiscali do not support adsl migration and neither do AOL - both these ISPs are also 12 month contracts which is quite rare now

E]
below is the latest on AOL migration , also there is a news article in the times i belive wheer the MD of AOL uk states he activly supports migrations to and from AOL

Service Specification
Central Pipe Unknown
Current Lead Time 10 Days
BBCi Broadband Access Yes
Migrations Supported Both Inbound & Outbound
Information Last Updated 16/06/2004 21:09:14

now the fun part ,, a month has passed since i asked for a migration ,,, twice aol told me it had happened ,, F9 have had problmes saying it hadnt -- so today i call AOL and get told "we dont support migrations at all ever" , funny that my wifes migration from AOL went smoothly a week beofr !! wonder if they actually knwo what they are doing?
still im emailing a copy of teh md statement and a copy of everythign thats happened to me during my attemtpted migration for his eyes ,, will be interesting to see what if anything comes back dont you think
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 25-July-2004, 15:05
silver's Avatar
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 12,177
Default

Hi doomreaper,

Welcome to TS!

I think you are right, AOL do support migrations now (or should do) - have updated the above. Good luck getting it sorted and let us know how it goes!

Sil
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 25-July-2004, 15:11
doomreaper
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks Silver - i will keep you informed as not only am i totally unhappy with whats going on , looks like i will face a 40 charge due to AOL ineptnous
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30-July-2004, 10:40
doomreaper
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

OK news update
I have been chasing for information on my 'migration' nearly every day ( though i did give them a three day break when i was told i would be contatced regarding this matter- i wsnt so i started again.
I contacted Jonathan (M.D.) at aol who said he would get it looked into , guess what - yep - nothing.
I contacted F9 again today and have been told that the migration is going through BUT it will take upto 21 days to complete?
bit of mths here ,, started 4th july , today is teh 30th july ,,, thats 26days isnt it ?
so migrations take 47days in total to complete ? i think not .....
OK so AOL do support migration BUT what they seem not to tell you is they wont make it easy and or they will take nearly 5 times the supposed average to complete AND they may still bill you after your migration has completed , meanwhile F9 will start billing you ( yes i have allready had one months subscription money taken from my account plus teh migration fee) .
I think the industry severaly needs a watchdog customers can contact to interveen in situations like this.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17-August-2004, 20:39
silver's Avatar
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 12,177
Default

did you manage to get migrated yet ?

Sil
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17-August-2004, 23:50
doomreaper
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

sorry , yes i have finnaly got migrated , after many many many phone calls , being toldit was down to BT , then aol saying it was down to F9 ,, etc etc ect ,, nobady actually seemed to care to do anything ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i had even been charged for teh migration and billed for amonths connection by F9 ,,,, BUT when i stared posting the comments on a public forum , suddenly things started to move,,, BUT i still had to do all the chaseing , it appeasr that BT had not had a request from F9 ,, and aol still owned the BB line , so i woudlnt get migration! , a few emails and phone calls to the MD at AOL and i got a MAC code , i passed that onto a particular guy at F( who was trying to get things sorted and hey presto one week later i have BB through F9 ,, the date then was Aug 11th........ Im not happy wiht the customer support service recieved directly from customer support at F9(force9) , BUT then AOL didnt do anything to improve their relations either. I was left to do all the chaseing around at my cost , still maybe F9 are going to be nice and compensate me in someway- we'll see
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17-August-2004, 23:59
Zer02004
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

There is a watchdog, but unfortunately, as with all these "public defenders", it has no teeth.
It sometimes threatens offenders with a nasty suck but that's about as far as it goes.
If this was any other line of business, ISP's would be going to the wall faster than render from a champion plasterer.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 18-August-2004, 00:00
silver's Avatar
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 12,177
Default

seems wrong that f9 should start charging before they have actually accepted the migration

things may be getting easier soon (hopefully!), AOL and others have signed up to a new process to speed up migrations, see <thread>:ADSL migration made easier

least you got it sorted eventually

Sil
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 19-August-2004, 12:38
Brian
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re/migration

Originally posted by silver
just to link up,.

my own experiance with tiscali (who do not allow adsl migration) was that I was without an ADSL connection for 5 weeks(!) while ADSL was deprovisioned and re-provisioned with another provider..

this was largly due to complete incompetence on tiscalis part who totally messed up the line de-provision

related <thread>:ADSL swap to another provider - tiscali ADSL cbuk issues condensed

Sil
This method could be drastic re no migration with your currant ISP.
I have been told the quickest way to clear your line from ADSL is to change your billing contract with BT to another member of the family, any contract you had with your ISP is auto cancelled.

I don't know if this is true, I'm sure someone will tell me otherwise.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 20-August-2004, 11:16
silver's Avatar
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 12,177
Default

Hi Brian,

I have seen that mentioned elsewhere, not sure if it really works though!

Sil

PS, when I phoned BT during my migration adventure (trying to leave tiscali!) BT said that even dropping my phoneline and changing the phone number may not remove ADSL - though I didn't push BT on it and they might have been wrong!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 20-August-2004, 12:29
Brian
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Just phoned BT on this very subject, but they where a bit evasive.
I suppose the only way to find out is do it.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 23-December-2004, 12:01
speedtouchguru
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Lightbulb Re: ADSL migration - what is it and why you should care

Another thing to bear in mind with migrations is that at present BT will not permit migrations from IPStream to Datastream based products (and vice versa).

BT claim it's for technical reasons but i believe it's cost based. According to one BT ADSL tech i've spoken to IPStream and Datastream are complete different technology wise and thus all the equipment has to be removed & reinstalled.

Last edited by speedtouchguru; 23-December-2004 at 12:02. Reason: (my speeling is atrocious)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 25-December-2004, 15:33
Guildenstern
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ADSL migration - what is it and why you should care

I have been told the quickest way to clear your line from ADSL is to change your billing contract with BT to another member of the family, any contract you had with your ISP is auto cancelled.

I don't know if this is true, I'm sure someone will tell me otherwise.
Originally Posted by Brian
Hmm, it's not adviseable. Most ISPs write in little bits into the contact stating that you will continue to be charged full rate for Broadband (and are still bound by their contracts) if the loss of service is caused by failure of a 3rd party service (such as your phone line being cut off because you either didn't pay or transferred your account to someone else)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 14-March-2005, 19:28
Hafstad
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Angry One of the 500

Well I guess I am one of the 500. I had a letter in December inviting me to disconnected after what Tiscali said was excessive downloading (which was why I got Broad Band to begin with). Please dont talk to me about contention ratios I dont understand the language. Anyway I thought fair enough - they dont want to give me the unlimite download I thought I was paying for so I'll go elsewhere. I contacted Onetell and liked their package, with added landline phone calls added in. Well I emailed persistently throughout Janary to the Tiscali Disconnections Dept and got no aknowledgement, I wrote on 28th January. no reply. Finally, after one month of little or no Broad Band access I was 'disconnected' on 25th February.

Disconnection does not mean disconnected, ie handing my 'migration key' or whatever back to BT Wholesale services. It is now 14th March and I am still told both by Onetel, BT and would you believe it the Tiscali Customer Care team that I have still not been 'disconnected'! In fact they had the affrontary to debit my credit card for a non-existant service.

Well I suppose I take some comfort in knowing that others have had the same appalling 'Customer Care'. But where to from here? I feel powerless to do anything but leave BT and migrate back to NTL. Any opinions on that? Or should I do what BT suggested - rent another line?

In complete desparation!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 15-March-2005, 22:26
cheeky2004
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ADSL migration - what is it and why you should care

The reasons behind the contracts are usually due to the fact you probably got free connection etc at sign up. Much like the mobile phone contracts. When you get free sign up companies such as Tiscali who offer these deals pay your connection for you, which is about 60 to BT Wholesale for the line set up. They then tie you to a minimum term of 12 months to recoup that cost and the free modem cost.

One Tel are a great company. I have dealings with them, and they have just purchased Telco Global, another large company specialising in phonecards, instant dial services and overseas connections. They are currently revamping alot of their services and coming up with new packages for customers of both Telco and One Tel.

I personally do not recommend NTL. They operate the Tesco broadband and there have been alot of complaints over bad customer service which we seem to become accustomed to everywhere these days. Half the time we find ourselves talking to India, and probably paying for the call to there aswell!

Plusnet have won many awards for customer service. I use them myself as they offer many extras for the more demanding user, such as free website hosting and virus/spam services, free email etc. I've have had absolutely no connection or service problems. I've been connected since last November and never disconnected once.

if you are generally looking for residential broadband you will not need all the extras, and there are some excellent packages around now. In April we see the introduction of the new wave of broadband where your speed will always be at the maximum level available. Some providers are already promoting this. Any forum readers looking at this, I advise, if you are thinking of upgrading to faster broadband now, hold off, don't pay any upgrade fee's, as from April you are likely to get it free.

Hope you get sorted. If you need any advice don't hesitate to ask.

Last edited by cheeky2004; 15-March-2005 at 22:34.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 29-April-2005, 10:36
samuelmorris
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ADSL migration - what is it and why you should care

Hmmm, AOL don't permit migrations off their services in my experience, in fact they don't really allow you to leave in any form (yeah i know how not legal that is).

I spent 7 months trying to move from AOL to another ISP, after 3 months trying to migrate, i requested to cancel manually, AOL blocked the line rather than cancelled it, only because we have two phone lines could we moveto another isp, by activating the other phone line. we requested bt to cancel the other line so we didn't have to pay for the wreck of a line AOL left behind.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 29-April-2005, 23:17
cheeky2004
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ADSL migration - what is it and why you should care

I dont know where you stand legally but if you are within your contract period with aol then maybe they can block the line until the contract is up. This would need looking into further.

However, if you are out of the contract period or operate without a minimum contract such as Virgin broadband then they really have no right to block the line. It is your line which you pay line rental for.

I'd look further into this and contact BT and if they won't help, then contact Ofcom. Broadband service itself has no service level agreement but the line you pay for is regulated.

But all this does depend on the contract you entered into with aol if there was one and if you paid to get out of it. If you did pay then after receiving your money you should have been free to go anywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 28-May-2005, 08:23
silver's Avatar
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 12,177
Default Re: ADSL migration - what is it and why you should care

ofcom now has a reasonable page abt ADSL migration - an the guidelines sound good and some of the better ISPs are signed up and listed - nice

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/advice/telec...m_cop/?a=87101

Sil
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 21-November-2006, 11:56
elliot elliot is offline
Screamager
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 243
Default Re: ADSL migration - what is it and why you should care

Sil the link in your last post seems to be defunct
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 21-November-2006, 12:25
silver's Avatar
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 12,177
Default Re: ADSL migration - what is it and why you should care

Sil the link in your last post seems to be defunct
Originally Posted by elliot View Post
thanks - they moved the page.. here is

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/advice/codes/bbm_cop/ - lists ISPs who've signed up

general ofcom notes on migration http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/migration/

Sil
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
adsl, aol, bad, broadband, bt, cable, car, company, connection, deals, email, free, home, internet, isp, key, line, make, mobile, network, ofcom, offer, phone, public, sound, speed, speeds, tesco, tiscali, virus

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999-2014 The Scream!