Premium rate call ban

[Worldlife]

The list of people on the Scream thread Check your dial up accounts that have been subject of scam telephone charges is continuing to increase. These scams are sometimes costing people hundreds of pounds.

Will the providers of genuine services (e.g Technical Support) join us in demanding that the relevant authorities take effecting action to ensure innocent telephone users are not successfully exploited by these scam organisations?

In view of the income generated by the genuine trade surely the telephone companies must be pressured to defer the charges to the accounts of affected customers unless the provider of the premium service is able to prove beyond all doubt that the account holder was aware that a premium service had been authorised.

Until things are made safer for the account holder the only way one can be secure from these pirate operations is to ban premium calls from one's telephone line.

Please let us know your views in the this poll which gives you the option to select several answers (MULTICHOICE POLL follows)

[Worldlife]

I've been thinking further about this.

What would be the pros and cons of requiring premium rate service providers to place a small warning notice and price meter on the computer screen whenever a premium call is being made from the computer and an affirmative confirmation being needed to start the meter?

With voice useage should there be a similar verbal warning and the call can only be proceeded with by an affirmative key action and, in order to ensure a person is listening to the message, an affirmative key action required every minute.

[squidgy]

I think it's a software issue. Also - If you're using an ADSL or cable modem, and you disconnect your V90 modem from the phone line, then you shouldn't have a problem.

[gem]

I'm afraid that you will find it near impossible for the 'authorities' to do much about it. First, it's extreemly difficult to do anything about it until a complaint is made (by which time it's too late!) and secondly, users should be a little more aware of what their PC's are actually doing.

I know that it's easy for me to talk since I have ADSL and don't have an analogue modem plugged into my phone line so I don't suffer with these problems but I also don't click on any strange box that appears on my screen - otherwise I'd get a message to say that my modem was not working - where as an analogue modem user would have his/her modem dial out at will.

It's user beware (or user be aware)!

[Worldlife]

Gem you seem to be overlooking the fact that these scams are not just aimed at adults .
Links are designed to appeal to children and when they innocently click on one of these they may get their parents involved in expensive premium rate calls. We have information here that these bills amount to several hundred pounds.

I would suggest the only way to stop this abuse is for the telephone providers to be legally obliged to pay the charges for such calls unless there is a written authorisation from the line customer endorsing the premium calls to that particular service.

Until something positive is done all we can do is ban premium rate calls from our telephone lines. By doing this we may encourage legitiimate premium rate line services to get something done about a serious problem affecting their trade.

[gem]

You cannot and will not ever ban premium rate calls since the majority are legal/legitamate. Has no one ever called a pr number in response to a TV ad or competition!

The 'scam' is aimed at all of us. It's up to 'us' to educate our children - it's no use putting the blame on the 'authorities' and expecting them to do something. It's like saying that smoking kills and costs the country millions. But who derives income from all this revenue that's generated.

It's a hard world out there and we all have to live in it, otherwise we don't survive. End of sermon.

[Worldlife]

Gem .. I would underline that this thread is not asking for authorities to ban premium rate call.

It is a demand for more adquate controls and contracts.

What I am saying is that the situation is currently so unsatisfactory that those who still have a dial-up internet connection would be sensible to ban premium rate calls from their telephone line particularly if they have children or may visit "adult" websites.

A contract to meet premium rate telephone call charges should not be merely a short, flash screen clicked unwittingly by a surfer and should involve the consent of the line customer.

Gem do you have statistics to support your contention that the majority of premium rate telephone calls are not exploitive?

[gem]

Yes, look at the number of pr numbers available. IF the majority were exploitive then Oftel(?) would have changed the rules/requirements to operate such a number. As I said before, look at the number of TV Ads and TV programmes that use a pr number. Or do you consider them to be exploitive too?

Another point. I don't suffer from these boxes flashing up on my screen - yes I have ADSL but I still have an analogue modem (not plugged in) so how come my PC isn't trying to dial out?

[Worldlife]

Don't you agree that there are too many people who have reported here of being exploited by premium rate telephone calls that they did not intend to make or who were not aware of the calls being made from their line.

Not everyone is aware of the vulnerability of their computer systems to the villains of the Premium Rate Call business and implement the precautions that you and I take (IMHO these should not be necessary!)

The only 100% way you can stop these villains, particularly if you have children on the computer, is to ask your Telco to put a ban on outgoing premium rate calls.

So far, other than one aborted call for technical support, I have not missed having a premium rate call ban on my phoneline.

[gem]

There are many thousands of pr numbers on the go at the present. Some of those numbers will disappear while others will come along. Most ARE legal, so you would ban them all for a few when it's the user who is (or should be) in control.
What do you want, a nanny state!

[Worldlife]

The users would be in control if in every case before a premium rate dialer was put on a computer a clear contract would appear for the lineholder to authorise the calls to be added to the line bill.

The software that we use to minimise the risk of a premium rate dialer being installed is not 100% safe in the face of a determined attack.

I underline I am not asking for a ban on premium call lines. I am suggesting that until more effort is made to control the villains (or the telcos take a more generous attitude to those victims of deceit) it is sensible for those on dial up connections to ask their telephone companies to put a premium rate call ban for outgoing calls.

That is not asking for a nanny state it is the citizen taking reasonable action to avoid being tricked or defrauded into unexpected premium rate call charges.

[Worldlife]

I certainly agree with Silv's suggestion put forward in

Beware this SCAM

Would that be satisfactory to you Gem?

[gem]

Sorry, I've been out most of the day (car buying with son!).

Um, maybe. But I'd doubt that BT would WILLINGLY do that - don't BT get extra revenue from these calls too! They would have to be told to bar them and I'd guess that it would be relatively easy to actually do too! But .......

[squidgy]

Incidentally - I have onetel select on my phone line. I've noticed this means I can't make premium rate calls on my phone line unless I dial 1280 first.

I think that ads on the telly for premium rate phone services should tell you to try dialling 1280 first if it doesn't work straight away. I was very frustrated once when I was trying to enter some competition, but couldn't, because I'd forgotten the 1280 prefix.

[Worldlife]

If one of these autodiallers has your "base" number but cannot connect would it try using a sequence of known prefixes in order to make the premium rate call?

[gem]

That does not work in all cases squidgy, it must depend on what tarrif you are on. I'm on One.Tel TotalUKCalls and I can dial up pr numbers without dialing any other numbers first!

[dantodan]

I used to think I was pretty good with computers until "Mega Downloads" lured me into running up a £375.00 phone bill.

My message to Gem and anyone else who thinks it is the users fault for getting scammed beware! It can happen to you, There will always be clever rogues out there who know more than you do.

I went on the Mega Download site when I was in a hurry started a download of Kazaa Lite walked away from the PC and didn't notice anything untoward when I came back to install Kazza and close down. The scam had nothing to do with Kazza by the way.

ICSTIS say the site was in breach of a few codes of practise and closed them down.

The more safeguards we have the better. I dont know why any reputable company would want to charge premium rates so I am quite happy to bar them totally.

Now we have the mobile fone scam in the news so maybe something good will come out of it

[buntyball]

Of course these diallers are exploitative. There are a host of 'legitimate' porn sites out there who charge around £20 pounds a month for continous access but these diallers charge at least £50000 a month for the same access!! Nobody who surfs porn regularly would use them. They are out to catch the newbies (sometimes children) and their methods of getting onto a computer are very sneaky and quite often does not involve a porn website. In the States it is reckoned that they take over $2 Billion a year and a dialler only needs to be out there a few weeks to make thousands of pounds most of which goes abroad from the UK.

I became interested in diallers when my last phone bill arrived last November. I had been charged £30 for seven calls totalling just over 24 minutes. I had never seen any EULA and I had not agreed to the dialler. It was not picked up by antivirus, Adaware or Spybot S&D and I had some difficulty in getting rid of it by registry editing etc.

The characterists of the most recent diallers are

1. They seldom come from UK websites.
2. They often install without a Eula using activeX or the byte verify trojan exploiting MS Java VM
3. If there is a Eula clicking 'No install' will result in a cascade of pop-ups which can only be deleted safely by clicking the upper right X. They sometimes install anyway.
4. Sometimes porn popups will download them if you miscue into the popup itself.
5. The files are small, encrypted and they change names very often. This makes the job of the Spyware programs almost impossible and they are usually up to 6 months behind.
6. Many silence the modem so you do not know they are dialling.
7. It is not usual to find a desktop icon so you do not know they are there unless you look for them.
8. They do not appear on 'add or remove programmes' and they always reinstall if you find and delete the dialler file only. You must search the registry and delete all you find there to get rid.
9. Most use and change freqently the 0909 numbers but sometimes international numbers.

BT are hopeless and only want their money. They tell me I cannot block 0909 numbers because I have ISDN but ICSTIS says they are mistaken!! ICSTIS are swamped - you cannot get through on the phone and four e-mails one in December, two in January and one two weeks ago have only just provoked a reply. They do not vet these diallers to make sure they comply with their Code of Practice before they go on-line but wait for complaints. Locking the stable door after the horse has bolted!. £50000 fines and closing down the number does not help. The profits are too high and they just use another number. Until ICSTIS realises that porn diallers are almost always scams and find a way to remove all 0909 numbers the disease will remain.

If you don't use Spybot S&D or Adadware (they are free) you should do so as though they do not remove the recent diallers they remove a lot of rubbish. Go to spywareinfo.com if you have problems in removing a dialler and they will help. Tighten up your IE security- download all Windows security updates regularly and do not accept activeX or JAVA scripts from unknown sites. As added protection use IE-spyad, Spywareblaster and Spywareguard (all free). My surfing (not porn!) has been a delight since taking these precautions.

[buntyball]

You will probably find that at the moment it will be difficult to reach spywareinfo and some of the free download sites to get the programs I mention in my last post. These sites have been the subject of denial of service attacks over the past ten days. Clearly someone who is making a lot of money out of diallers and other nasties is cross. This is war!

[Worldlife]

Welcome to T/S buntyball.

Thanks for such an in-depth post. It sets out so clearly what is happening and will be useful background information to anyone writing to their Member of Parliament about their personal situation. The more people who contact their MP's the more likely the Minister involved will be pressured to sort this out.

In my view this appalling situation must be sorted out.

[P.C.Dunderhead]

Too right.Ultimately,it is the regulars on sites like the-scream upon whom the burden will fall to explain this to M.P.s/Law Enforcement Agencies.To be charitable,I'd say,none of them have the faintest idea what is going on in Cyberspace.....

We all laughed at their lame "anti-spam" campaign.It was indicative of how wildly way off beam their comprehension of the situation is...

[Appuleius]

Hi Im back!
I might be totally off beam but I have had an 08707 number appear on my phone bill (BT line but phone with Tiscali every time saver) a number of times, which I can not remember phoning, one was for 28 mins and cost me 97p! peculiar thing was this number was called (according to my bill) 5 times in 3 mins and the last call lasted 28 mins.
Also the same number dialled twice on a Sunday and once more a week later??
Is it possible for the scam dialler to dial out from your modem when you are on the net? I am not on broadband it is a Tiscali dial up account.
I have tried phoning the number and just get a dead line (not unobtainable with dialling tone, but seems connected with no audio?) BT have tried dialing this number for me and they just say it is busy they will not reveal who the number belongs to, is there anyway of finding out.
I am puzzled!!

[Appuleius]

Ahem, just found out by reading another posting on Tisacli forum from the whistle blower that the number in question is the Tiscali Custmer service number?????
All is revealed in the fullness of time.

[Pisces]

I phoned BT to put a stop to any premium numbers being dialed from my phone. I said that I was doing it in case someone put a dial up number on my computer without me knowing. BT man said he did not think the ban would work for that, it was up to the ISP to put a stop to it. Any thoughts on this.

[silver]

guy is wrong

the diallers work by dialling the number using your modem - this only happens when you aren't connected to your ISP

Sil

[Pisces]

Thanks Sil.

[buntyball]

BT say that they cannot block 0909 dialled numbers through a modem on an ISDN line. 'It is not technically possible'

ICSTIS say BT are mistaken.

BT say that as the call goes through an ISP only the ISP can block the call.

Freeserve (my ISP) say they can't do anything only BT can as the calls do not go through their network.

My understanding is that a dialler disconnects from the ISP who is not therefore involved and then dials direct through BT and BT are not interested in blocking any call.

Who do you believe? Who is right?

[P.C.Dunderhead]

In my opinion,this is indicative of mass confusion over the problem of diallers.

Firstly,you have to bear in mind a lot of company reps you speak to on the phone are little more than glorified secretaries.It's their job to answer phones,and if you've simply forgotten your password or can't configure O.E. etc,they are wonderful.
Having said that,I am increasingly aware that it seems it is up to US to explain what is happening,even to their Tech experts.
Personally,I'd take anything BT say with a pinch of salt.They can't refuse to block the prefix specified.If they do,what does that tell you?To me,it screams "COMPLICITY".

[Worldlife]

Pisces ...how about making a formal complaint to British Telecom that you were not provided with correct or adequate information from the person who answered your call.

If he did not know the correct answer he should have referred you to someone who did. "Thinking" that something is may be the answer is not right when customers oould be victims of substantial fraud.

[merlin]

Whilst accidentley surfing an adult site a while ago, My internet connection was cut off only to be replaced by a dialer.
which imediatley started to dial an unknown number.

No matter what I pressed I could not stop it, in the end I had to turn the computer off.

BT, do have a service that will stop premium numbers being dialed, and in this case, would have stopped it on the onset.