Help: Info about (possible) scam...

[simonaward]

[NOTE: TURNS OUT THAT THIS WASN'T A SCAM - JUST A VERY STUPID YOUNGER BROTHER, BUT I'LL LEAVE THIS HERE AS A WARNING TO OTHERS...]


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This 'scam' has cost my brother over £1000!
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Firstly I will apologise, these details will be vague. I'm currently trying to research a 'possible scam' for my family. It may not all make sense, it doesn't to me either - that’s why I'm looking for help:

My 18 year old brother received his mobile phone bill a month or so ago, the bill was a whooping £750 +!
(I no longer live with or near my family anymore - so details have come to me via a phone call with mum)

Upon my parents questioning this with vodafone, they were told that my brother had been 'scammed'.
(I must add at this point that my family aren't the most 'clued up' people, well, basically they're stupid!)

I haven't seen it - but I've been told that the bill isn't itemised.
But mum is under the impression that the cost of the bill is for 'received texts'.

(I believe that) it is possible that my brother either replied to a spam text, therefore entering into some sort of agreement to receive premium texts - or that he even started this by texting some 'mucky' number or something.

To be honest, he seems to be playing dumb and 'doesn't recall' anything - mum says he 'doesn't remember getting any texts'.

At this point, they got vodafone to 'bar' the phone to prevent any further expense and (stupid move number 1) agreed to pay vodafone gradually over the forthcoming months...


My initial reaction to this was "How did vodafone ever let the bill become this much?"
A few years ago, my mobile got cut off mid-billing period, because I'd made nearly £100 pounds worth of calls, and wasn't reconnected until I phoned vodafone and paid up (something to do with a credit limit).


The maths of it all baffels me too: Even a £700 bill would require (for example) recieving 280 text messages at £2.50 ago.
(I suppose that would only require 10 a day for 30 days - but surely my brother isn't that thick????)


IT GETS WORSE!
My brother received another bill a month later with another £350 on it.
When questioned, vodafone state that these were for the period between where the first bill was made and they my parents asked to have the phone 'cut-off'.
(Stupid move number 2: ) So they agreed to add this to the previous amount and pay it off gradually too!

So basically:
What does this sound like to you?
Does this sound like a scam that anyone else knows of?
If so, is there anything that can be done?


Or has my brother basically just been receiving ‘mucky’ texts that he ‘technically’ asked for anyway?
If so, how did Vodafone not pick this up and cut him off?


Any advice to help me make sense of this, and what to do about it would be very much appreciated. Then I can put my infuriating family to rights! (I’m not as thick as them – honest!)

[Worldlife]

Some time ago we dealt with Unsolicited text messages to Mobile Phones and there is some advice here on how the situation was tackled.

I think most mobile phone companies will make a limit on the maximum bill you can run up or you can fix a lower limit if you like. I don't think there would be much ground made in criticising the mobile service provider if the calls were within the set limits

As with similar scams on dial up networks Premium Rate call ban it is possible that one might have unwittingly given authoritiy for such calls to be made.

The first stage would be to identify the numbers charging these expensive calls and on what authority.

Knowing eighteen year old boys he might have been exploring the more adult side of the phone services and got hit. Guess he might be too embarrassed to go into detail with you.

[DaveL]

A useful site for this is Grumbletext. It has advice and a forum where people have posted information on SMS scams.

[squidgy]

I think you're right about stupid moves numbers 1 and 2. They might as well cash their life savings, put all the banknotes in a resealable food bag, bury in a public park, spray a big X over the place where they've buried it, and pin maps of it to all the noticeboards - just in case they can't find it again. Never admit liability for anything.

Guess he might be too embarrassed to go into detail with you.

I think that's the most likely problem. He might be even more embarrassed if it turned out that the content wasn't particularly adult!

I think your best advice to them would be - don't do it again. I can't help wondering if vodafone will bother to issue a county court summons if they don't pay.

[DaveL]

If you do start receiving lots of these sorts of messages from a 'service' which you did not subscribe to you should contact your operator as they will probably be premium rate charged. It's better than waiting for your bill to arrive! If you do phone your network operator, make a note of dates and times when you do so.

[simonaward]

Sorry folks,

It turns out that my suspicions were right. After looking into this myself, and popping into the vodafone shop on the way home from work this evening - I phoned mum and told her the only way to make any sense of this from here is to ring and ask for an itemised bill. She did this, and when my brother got home she told him that she had...

Apparently he sat in the corner and shook for a while!

Turns out that it's something to do with SKY and one of their 'late night programs'. From what we can make out, he texted a number and then started receiving texts back. After a while he didn't know what to do, so deleted them thinking that was enough (which animal sticks their head in the sand?)- then of course the bill came!

Still curious to see this itemised bill - I want to see the cost and frequency of these messages, and work out how on earth he clocked up £1000 in a month!

All I can say now is, I hope they were worth it!


Thankyou for the time and effort from those who replied, and sorry that it turned out to be unnecessary...

[squidgy]

Apparently he sat in the corner and shook for a while!

Bless his cotton socks. He's not the first kid to notch up big premium rate phone bills, and he certainly won't be the last.

But presumably he's over 18. Otherwise, I can't see how he would have been able to enter into a credit agreement with Vodafone. Or was the agreement in his parents' name?

If you're a parent who has grown-up children still living with you, then I think it's a good idea to read up about debt enforcement. Find out exactly how your children's debts can be enforced.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points, but bailiffs cannot seize your possessions for your child's debt - they can only seize things that really belong to your child. Oh, and they can't force entry unless they were previously admitted voluntarily. Similarly, a charging order can't be made against your property for your child's debt - unless you and your child jointly own the house you live in - which I guess is unlikely if you don't know about it.

[simonaward]

He is over 18 now - but may have been on a contract before then via agreement of parents.

It was interesting what vodafone said to me about 'credit zones' (I explained how i'd been cut off once because my bill was over £100) - the women at the shop just said that my brother must have a better credit rating therefore his 'credit zone' with vodafone would be higher. Still - seems daft to allow an 18 year old to have a credit zone above £750!

In terms of paying it, he will - I see what your saying about baliffs etc - but he's now scared of being 'black listed' for credit and it coming back to haunt him in the future.

Oh well, he'll have to learn the hard way...