House of Commons Hansard Debates for 19 Dec 2005

[El Gringo]

Did anybody see this debate? The best so far.

House of Commons Hansard Debates for 19 Dec 2005 (pt 40)

Mr. Blizzard @ The Minister for Industry and the Regions (Alun Michael):
The hon. Gentleman has taken the words right out of my mouth. The key principle of this case, which applies to all commercial transactions, is that one should not have to pay for what one has never bought. There is indeed a comparison with fraudulent items on credit card bills.

Why should my constituent, Mr. Gasson, and others have to pay BT money that we now know was fraudulently generated? BT, and no other organisation, is the organisation with which he has the commercial relationship as a customer.

Because I feel that BT took fraudulently generated money from customers and passed it on through other companies in the communications chain to the very people who perpetrated the fraud, I asked Suffolk police to investigate whether BT was in breach of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, and that matter is being pursued by Suffolk police and the Suffolk Crown Prosecution Service. BT knew at that time that the money was dodgy because it was paying its share to a charity. It denies guilt today, and I am not trying to take on BT on that count. It says that it was doing only what it was contractually obliged to do.

First, these matters must be pursued through the criminal justice system. The Suffolk investigation is proceeding very slowly. Will my right hon. Friend therefore write to the Crown Prosecution Service in Suffolk in order to be kept informed and to show some interest in the matter?

Blizzard is a blast.

[El Gringo]

House of Commons Hansard Debates for 19 Dec 2005 (pt 39)

19 Dec 2005 : Column 1680

Internet (Rogue Dialling)

Motion made and question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—[Kevin Brennan.]
10.5 pm

Mr. Bob Blizzard (Waveney) (Lab): After a lengthy and, dare I say it, extended debate about police force boundaries, I want to focus on the victims of a particular crime—we always say that we want to put victims first. I am grateful for the opportunity to bring to the attention of the House the appalling situation that 19 households in my constituency have experienced as victims of what has become known as internet rogue dialling. I also want to discuss the dismal treatment that those constituents have received as BT customers and highlight the regulatory mess, from which we are now emerging with the help of the Minister for Industry and the Regions, my right hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Alun Michael), but which still leaves my constituents and thousands more all over the country as out-of-pocket victims who feel that they have been living a nightmare.

Although there have been various problems associated with premium rate service abuse, I am discussing one specific type of scam—for "scam", read "crime". It did not involve the victims making any judgments or misjudgments while using the internet, and it did not involve misleading online advertisements or offers that might have lured people into such a predicament. All my constituents did was open their telephone bill and find charges, usually for hundreds of pounds, for calls that they never made. The largest charge was for more than £800, and those people can prove that they never made those calls.

Ofcom accepts that that is what happened, and it has provided me with a briefing for this debate:

"There exists a type of 'rogue' dialler using premium rate ('09') international and satellite numbering that proved to be a serious virus type problem during 2004 and resulted in substantial levels of consumer harm. This resulted in ICSTIS receiving an unprecedented volume of complaints and enquiries from consumers about this activity. The majority of those cases involved websites simply installing diallers without permission and with stealth, resulting in consumers receiving high bills and subsequently disputing them on the grounds that they had no knowledge these calls were being made."

The rogue calls were usually to an obscure, faraway place, in the case of most of my constituents, the island of Tuvalu, which I confess that I had never heard of until I took up this matter, and a wave of complaints was made to BT, the police and the regulators. The matter was highlighted in East Anglia by BBC "Look East", but other victims have subsequently contacted me from all over the country.

BT has also provided me with a brief, which states:

"at one time some 2,000 cases were being reported daily to ICSTIS; ICSTIS were taking up to 26 weeks to conclude investigations; ICSTIS often did not know who ran the services in order for customers to approach them to their money back as records were not up to date, and some unscrupulous terminating comms providers dragged their feet in complying with requests to update ICSTIS; ICSTIS had no real 'teeth' to make them comply".

It is clear that BT tended to blame the Independent Committee for the Supervision of Standards of Telephone Information Services.

19 Dec 2005 : Column 1681


The real problem was that whoever people complained to, BT said, in effect, "It's not me, guv—it's not my fault." One of my constituents, Mr. Gasson, received a bill for more than £600-worth of calls that he never made. He spoke to BT and then contacted the police, who referred him back to BT. Since then, he has been pursued for payment and there have been heaps of correspondence between him, myself and BT. Today, he has been cut off for not paying for something that he never bought.

[El Gringo]

http://www.icstis.org.uk/pdfs_news/IQSpring06.pdf
ICSTIS was delighted to invite the Rt. Hon Alun Michael MP, Minister of
State for Industry and the Regions, to its offices on Thursday 26 January

To conclude his visit, the Minister
addressed all ICSTIS staff. In his speech he
congratulated ICSTIS on its success in
closing down rogue services and fining
companies that intentionally defrauded
unsuspecting consumers, and he gave
recognition to the work ICSTIS does to
build consumer confidence in the premium
rate market.
He also took the opportunity to speak
about his own experiences and reported
that the bulk of his correspondence from
MPs across his Industry and the Regions
portfolio was about silent calls, rogue
diallers and scams.
The Minister concluded by emphasising
the importance of ICSTIS and of prompt,
decisive action.
“It is in the industry's interests as well
as those of the consumer that we are
faster than the scam merchants and close
down loopholes before they are invented.”

"intentionally defrauded" Whats unintentional fraud. Is that like unintentional mugging, unintentional burglary.
OK now I'm getting in a bad temper.
"close down loopholes before they are invented" Who the **** does he think is responsible for creating the "loop holes"