The great escape: 5 weeks waiting for Talk Talk cancellation

[nickd]

I signed up for Talk Talk's 1 Mb/s broadband back in August 2005, so I am now outside the 12-month minimum contract. Hurray, I can leave.

So back in October (7th), I sent Customer Service a letter asking to cancel, and also asking for the MAC code.

A week or so went by, and I heard nothing, so on October 18th, I rang Customer Service. They had no record of the letter.

So I asked them to cancel my broadband service, and send a MAC code.
The very next day, I received the MAC code.

By the weekend, I had confirmation from Demon of my broadband order, but they wrote saying there was a delay because "BT line tests have shown that you may have incompatible products on your current BT line".

I rang Demon and passed on the MAC code, thinking this was the cause of the delay.

It wasn't.

After a couple of weeks, I rang Demon to check progress: still a delay, because of a tag or marker on the line.

So I rang Talk Talk's Customer Service, and asked them to remove the tag.
"Jenny" in Customer Service said "what sort of tag?", then after some explanation said (paraphrased)
"Talk Talk don't remove the tag - your new supplier has to do that".

"But I've just spoken to them", I said, "and they tell me they can't do it - apparently you have to".

"Well whenever we get a migration, we always remove the tag, so they should be doing that for you."

So one supplier (Demon) says that the LSP should remove the tag, the other (Talk Talk) says the GSP should do that. These statements can't both be true; who's lying?

Well I found out by ringing BT Wholesale's Tag Team on 0800 1699576.
They told me there's still a tag on the line (allocated to Opal/TalkTalk), and that it's the old service provider (ie. Talk Talk) who should cease the line, by making a "cease request" to BTW.

BTW can't do this, they tell me; they can only cease the line after a request from the losing SP.

So I just need to get somebody at TalkTalk to cease the line...
So from about 6pm onwards on the evening of 6th November, I made several apparently futile calls to Talk Talk, trying to get someone to arrange a "cease" on the line.

First try: Name. Address. Postcode. Bank. Spoke to someone (hurray!) who said Customer Services can't deal with it, and helpfully gave me a telephone number for Cancellations.

Second try (Cancellations): "All of our operators are currently busy". Disconnected.

Third try: Name. Address. Postcode. Bank. Spoke to someone who mumbled a lot and said I should speak to the "Customer Options" department, and offered to divert me to them.

Spent a few minutes on hold waiting for a response from Customer Options. Disconnected.

Fourth try: Name. Address. Postcode. Bank. Asked to speak to someone (anyone!) who could arrange a cease on the line. That's removing a tag from the line. A tag. A tag, or a marker. You still have a tag or a marker on the line.

I was told (again) that Talk Talk don't remove the tag, someone else does. I countered that this contradicts what BTW and the other ISP reckon the procedure should be. I asked to speak to a manager. All managers are busy. I asked for the agent's name. "My name is... My name is..." Disconnected.

Fifth try: I want to speak to a manager.

"Sorry, you must give us your details before we start".

Name. Address. Postcode. Bank. I want to speak to a manager.

I was told that no managers were available, of course, so I explained to the agent (Puarnima?) that I wanted the line to be cancelled, and a cease request to BTW. The agent told me she had made a note of the request on the system, but couldn't give me any idea when it would be actioned.

Wednesday 8th November
rang BTW Tag Team: still no cease request
rang Talk Talk: was told they'd now made a node of the request, and it should probably be done by the 16th.
emailed Steve Thompson (TT Compliance Manager), Cc'd to customer services and Dunstone with a complaint.

Friday 10th November
rang BTW Tag Team: still no cease request
No response to the complaint.

Wednesday 15th November
No response to the complaint.
rang BTW Tag Team: still no cease request
rang Talk Talk: "Anthony" (in Delhi, I suspect) saw how many phone calls I've made, and transferred me to Customer Options
John in Customer Options has no idea why it's taking so long, and does not have access to emails sent to Customer Service.

I asked to speak to a manager, ideally Steve Thompson, but was told that no-one would be able to deal with it just yet. Steve did arrange a call-back from a manager, though

So at some point in the next 24 hours (to 1pm November 16th) I should receive a phone-call from a manager about all this.

I won't hold my breath.

Oh, and on November 18th (Saturday), the MAC expires, so I'll have to ask for another one.

(Just in case anyone's still wondering, THIS is why you shouldn't join Talk Talk - because even when you can cancel, you still can't cancel.)

*** Update [23/11/2006] ***
Well, I waited for the callback, and no-one called back.

On Friday 17th, I spoke to Matthew in the call-centre in Southampton, who noted my request for a cease of the line, and suggested it should be done by Monday.

Monday came and went - no cancellation, no cease request.
Tuesday morning: rang BTW - no cease request

On Wednesday 22nd, I sent 2 letters by recorded delivery (now called the "Signed For" service), 1st class:
One letter was to Talk Talk's Data Controller (see this post for more info about the Data Protection Act) asking for any records they have about me, and of contact between myself and Customer Service.
(Delivered on 23rd - No POD available yet)

The other was to Customer Service, asking them to please cancel, and this time remember to submit a cease request; and also to send me another MAC, because the first one has now expired.
(This was delivered on the 27th, according to the Royal Mail)
I am also wondering if I could invoke an FSA audit too (but the reason for that is another story...).

Today I rang BTW's Tag Team and discovered that the Cease Request was submitted on Tuesday 21st, and (depending on BTW's engineers) the line should be cleared by December 5th.

So it looks like I might finally be free of Talk Talk after only 2 months of pestering.

Confusingly, when I rang Customer Options (perhaps the managers don't like to heear the word "cancellations"), it was confirmed that the line had been ceased, but I was told the broadband hasn't been cancelled yet - it's only the phone line that I can't use for broadband.

What?

So I can't use my phone-line to connect to TalkTalk Broadband (because it's been ceased, or is now being ceased) but somehow they're still supplying me with the service.

Here I am trying to keep the moral high ground by not cancelling the DD instruction just yet, and what are TalkTalk doing?
By spinning out the cancellation, they've already extracted an extra £26.99 out of me, and if they get the timing just right, they'll have another £26.99 for the few days in December before the migration is completed.

Never mind. I find these Five Principles comforting:

1. If we don't look after the customer, someone else will.
2. Nothing is gained by winning an argument but losing a customer.
3. Always deliver what we promise. If in doubt, under promise and over deliver.
4. Always treat customers as we ourselves would like to be treated.
5. The reputation of the whole company is in the hands of each individual.


--
Nick Dixon

[pritska]

Wow, good luck with the leaving mate!

I have a friend who is getting line, phone package, and broadband, but
according to TalkTalk he does not exist on their systems, so he gets NO bills and is "enjoying" free service at the moment.

[ronniewalters]

Can anyone give me the e.mail of Charles Dunston


Ronnie Walters

[JohnnyReb51]

Try this Ron.

dunstonec@cpw.co.uk

[ronniewalters]

Thanks Johnny I have sent an e.mail to him ,God why did I go with Talk talk they must be the worst server in the UK.

Ron

[nickd]

Well, Talk Talk have finally placed a cease request, on the 21st of November after nearly 3 weeks.

BTW say the cease should be completed by the 5th December, although TalkTalk have also cancelled my account (Error 691 - Access denied because username and/or password is invalid on the domain) since about the 23rd, so even though I've paid for the whole month in advance, I've only had 3 weeks of broadband service, which means TT owe me at least £6.96

[nickd]

As I predicted in my previous post, having cancelled my service in November, TalkTalk have now billed me £26.99 for December. Idiots.

I queried this with Rafiq in Customer Service somewhere in Warrington or Preston (from his accent), and was told that according to their system, the broadband hasn't been cancelled yet, and won't be cancelled until the Cease is complete (that'll be today, the 5th, according to BTW).

Anyway, BTW has nothing to do with it. My contract is with TalkTalk, not BTW. Doesn't make any difference whether BTW take 5 days, 10 days, or 10 weeks.

I pointed out that since I haven't been able to connect since November 23rd, that's when they actually cancelled the service, and I ought to be demanding a refund from them for the service I didn't get in November.

He suggested they could refund me for the lost service in November, and they'd also credit me the remainder (probably 25 days) of December after the cease is complete.

(This does not make sense - I don'tpay for 8 days in November when I didn't have broadband and was waiting for the cease to complete, but I dopay for 5 or 6 days in December when I don't have broadband and I'm waiting for the cease to complete.)

I told them this is not acceptable. I have already cancelled the DD instruction, because as far as I am concerned, my service was cancelled in November. I want them to credit the full amount for December, because it's their cock-up.

Poor lad has sent an email to High Level Complaints and requested a call-back, but past experience tells me they won't call back - they'll just ignore me, send a couple of letters telling me I'm in arrears and then pass it onto a debt collection agency. Like they did with their last billing error.

Which is why a letter is going to Warrington registered post...

Then there's the Data Protection Act:
They've had my Subject Access Request for 12 days now; the Law requires them to provide the information within 40 days of receiving their fee (up to £10 to cover costs), but they haven't asked for a fee yet, so presumably they don't need it.

Oh, and it's now taken about 9 weeks.

[annette]

Had to laugh at your letter so many memorys of the appauling service of talktalk the foreign people the phone being put down and waiting for a mac code.
Gone to bt and paid for someone to install easy and with no mac code the line should be free within 3 weeks and you can then switch providers.

[djimbo]

As I predicted in my previous post, having cancelled my service in November, TalkTalk have now billed me £26.99 for December. Idiots.

.

Originally Posted by nickd

Sounds remarkably similar to my own escape scenario, they tried to steal a month of mine too. It took me two months, three or four hours of calls, two recorded letters and finaly an automatic site that worked on the third occasion to get it canceled and a MAC code.
That was way back in May. Then exactly 7 days before xmas I get a letter from their debt collectors threatening county court action if I don't pay them some mysterious £75 they say I owe them. (first communication of any kind in the interim)
If I were you, I'd make damn sure you had all your cancelation documentation saved.

best regards
jim.

[nickd]

If I were you, I'd make damn sure you had all your cancelation documentation saved.

best regards
jim.

Originally Posted by djimbo

Cancellation documentation? No, I never had any documentation from them about the cancellation.
They never put anything in writing unless they're chasing a bill.

They have tried to chase me for a few pounds for the five or six days in December before BTW completed a cease on the line (even though I had no broadband service then), but SWMBO rang up and shouted at them

They've also failed to respond to this letter, which will count against them if it goes to court:

Customer Services
TalkTalk Telecom Limited
Stanford House
Garrett Field
Birchwood
Warrington
Cheshire
WA3 7BH

Re: Account number Wxxxxx
Bill date: 29 November 2006
Bill number: xxxxxxxxxx

Billing Error

Dear Sir,

I am writing to inform you of a billing error on your part with regard to my broadband account.

I wrote to you on 7th October to give 30 days notice of my intention to cancel my broadband contract, pursuant to your Summary Terms and Conditions.

6 weeks later, after I had made several frustrating and apparently futile calls to Customer Service and Options telling you to cancel the service and cease the line, you finally placed a cease request with BT Wholesale on the 20th November.

I also discovered on 23rd November that I could no longer log onto your domain.
I infer therefore, that my account has been cancelled by you as of the 23rd November.

So I fail to understand why you have billed me £26.99 for broadband service for the period 1/12/2006 to 31/12/2006.

I queried the bill with an agent (Rafiq) in one of your UK call-centres, and his explanation was that since the cease does not complete until 5th December, I should be billed for December.
I do not accept this. Technically, I should be demanding a refund from you, because I paid £26.99 in November for £20-worth of broadband service.

Your Customer Service agent suggested you could refund the overcharge in November, and also issue a credit for the remainder of December after the cease is completed on my phone line.

But my contract is with TalkTalk, not with BT Wholesale.

The lead-time for BTW completing cease requests has no bearing on the fact that I have not had a broadband service from TalkTalk since 22nd November.

And if TalkTalk had done it’s job properly, the cease request could have been submitted early in November and completed already before the end of the month.

Instruction Cancelled
Since you have failed to provide a broadband service since 23rd of November, I infer the cancellation date to be 23rd November, and on that basis I have already cancelled the Direct Debit instruction, so you will not be able to take any payment in December.

I am not prepared to pay £26.99 or any other amount for a service you no longer supply, so here is what I want you to do:

• Raise a credit for £26.99 against the December amount.

That is all you have to do. I will allow you the full amount for November, but I expect a full credit against the December bill.

I have already asked your Customer Service agent to arrange this; but past experience with TalkTalk has shown that you will probably do nothing, which is why I am now notifying you of this in writing, so there can be no misunderstanding.

If I do not receive a response from you within 7 days of your receipt of this letter (and it will be sent recorded, so I shall know when it has been delivered), I shall consider the matter resolved to my satisfaction, and the account settled.

Yours faithfully,


Nick Dixon