please help me with premium rate phone numbers

[fadeee4]

hello there ,

am from Egypt i have premium rate phone numbers that is 423 and 239 from mediatel.com .

there is alot of problem the 239 calls hijacked .
the 423 number's not all of them work some time the line's keep busy some times the call cut ... etc

so I'm looking for good company that give me premium rate phone numbers with good quality service .

thanks alot for every one .

[Mender]

I'm looking for good company that give me premium rate phone numbers with good quality service

As you are in Egypt, I suggest that you contact telephony service providers in Egypt for your needs

[Hamlet]

am from Egypt i have premium rate phone numbers that is 423 and 239 from mediatel.com .

Originally Posted by fadeee4

Do you have the numbers directly from Mediatel? Would you please send me a PM which exact numbers/blocks you are using? What service? Who was your Mediatel contact? (always aks for Mr Mike Charlesworth or Mr Kerry Gill and tell them that their old friend Hamlet did send you - but I'd love to hear who's your contact or what really went wrong)

...the 239 calls hijacked...
...the 423 number's not all of them work some time the line's keep busy some times the call cut... etc

Originally Posted by fadeee4

I can't understand the problems, please send me more details (prívate message). What do you mean when you say "hijacked"?

I'm surprised to hear that there's a problem with Mediatel numbers. Maybe these are not Mediatel's numbers. I think that I'm able to get you someone that can help you, but not in public - because I'm afraid that Kerry and Mike wouldn't be glad to hear that Hamlet is enticing customers away from Mediatel)



Do you mean +239 (Sao Tome) and +42366 for Liechtenstein? Should not be a problem for a state-of-the-art company like Mediatel. We're not talking about Telecom Vanuatu numbers, are we ??? (just kidding)

It's not necessary to ask for an Egypt provider, this could even be a problem (and therefore non-Egypt could be better), depending on the content... I guess you know what I mean...

We are all here to help whereever we can, aren't we?

[fadeee4]

Do you have the numbers directly from Mediatel? Would you please send me a PM which exact numbers/blocks you are using? What service? Who was your Mediatel contact? (always aks for Mr Mike Charlesworth or Mr Kerry Gill and tell them that their old friend Hamlet did send you - but I'd love to hear who's your contact or what really went wrong)


I can't understand the problems, please send me more details (prívate message). What do you mean when you say "hijacked"?

I'm surprised to hear that there's a problem with Mediatel numbers. Maybe these are not Mediatel's numbers. I think that I'm able to get you someone that can help you, but not in public - because I'm afraid that Kerry and Mike wouldn't be glad to hear that Hamlet is enticing customers away from Mediatel)



Do you mean +239 (Sao Tome) and +42366 for Liechtenstein? Should not be a problem for a state-of-the-art company like Mediatel. We're not talking about Telecom Vanuatu numbers, are we ??? (just kidding)

It's not necessary to ask for an Egypt provider, this could even be a problem (and therefore non-Egypt could be better), depending on the content... I guess you know what I mean...

We are all here to help whereever we can, aren't we?

Originally Posted by Hamlet

hello,

thanks hamlet for your help ,
first yes i could not use Egypt company cuz of content also my customer are from 22 Arabic countries not only Egypt .
it will be big help to give me some one who could help , I'm losing alot of traffic , i have 239 (Sao Tome) it is this block 239282xxx it is hijacked that mean stolen , when some body call the number it go for another one and the calls not go to my service " which is recorded story's " and the calls not appear in my stats .

with the 423 number's which is from these block 42366290xxxx the problem is alot of calls come and find the line busy ( while no calls on the line ) also some calls connected but they never go to my recorded story's and not appear in my stats also .

We are all here to help whereever we can, aren't we?

thanks alot

[Hamlet]

Liechtenstein numbers? Last year I've heard that Liechtenstein numbers are no longer available for international billing because of a limitation of the enduser fee to 15 rappen (0,15 CHFr). What do you get for a minute? (0,10? more?)
The numbers of that block are run by "Telco AG":
http://www.telco.ag/active/en/home.html

239282xxx is used by other companies as well. Payout was ~30cts but as far as I know it's less nowadays...

... if you have skype, you could try to reach Mike or "Carrie Kirby". Mike's online at the moment... see mediatel.com
if Mediatel numbers are hijacked then Mediatel should give an explanation... Please keep in mind that those companies have secret contracts and sometimes this or that may be a bit... shady...

see
http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/s...693#post226693

I would insist on an explanation about what's going on - especially with the Sao Tome numbers. Who is stealing?

[Hamlet]

what I'm trying to say: Mediatel should help you, because you have alternatives.

[silentgenius]

@ Hamlet - "Who was your Mediatel contact? (always aks for Mr Mike Charlesworth or Mr Kerry Gill and tell them that their old friend Hamlet did send you - but I'd love to hear who's your contact or what really went wrong)"

I'm surprised to hear that, very surprised:
Think Kerry is female btw

[Hamlet]

I'm surprised to hear that, very surprised:
Think Kerry is female btw

Originally Posted by silentgenius

I'm rolling on the floor... Well, you got me, but: everyone has his little secrets
Kerry is female?

Girls will be boys and boys will be girls. Its a mixed up muddled up shook up world

Originally Posted by Lola (The Kinks)

sorry, Kerry.

And @fadeee4: Is this you? I hate black hat SEO. Stay with Mediatel and anything is fine.
alternatives:

premium-tlc.com
globalbilling.com
premium-rates.com
maxtis.com

there are alternatives to Mike Charlesworth but - sorry - I can't help a black hat SEO. I'm sorry.
Being you I would join telemedianetwork.ning.com and ask for help

[sheryarmajid]

what are your opinions on premium tlc, it seems they have the best payout rates in the industry?

[Hamlet]

what are your opinions on premium tlc, it seems they have the best payout rates in the industry?

Originally Posted by sheryarmajid

Any comment about Premium TLC would make Mr Scalia angry and possibly he would be threatening The Scream to delete it, so I can't help you that far...

How can he have the highest Payout? Are you sure? Did you check that? What companies did you check? I always thought Premium TLC was a reseller, but I may be wrong. Not all of the payout rates are known in the public...

[Hamlet]

Stay with Mediatel and anything is fine.
alternatives:

premium-tlc.com
globalbilling.com
premium-rates.com
maxtis.com

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Guess I was drunk that day. Sorry. At least that was only written for google.
Usually I am not working as a promoter for PR services

[sheryarmajid]

Any comment about Premium TLC would make Mr Scalia angry and possibly he would be threatening The Scream to delete it, so I can't help you that far...

How can he have the highest Payout? Are you sure? Did you check that? What companies did you check? I always thought Premium TLC was a reseller, but I may be wrong. Not all of the payout rates are known in the public...

Originally Posted by Hamlet

hi
wel yes in terms of all the payout rate cards available to the public,premiumtlc hav the highest payest rates for most countries
so who is not a reseller?mediatel?wel if u say mediatel.i will hav to conclude that you work for them!my ass that ur a "fraudanalyst for telco".lol.im only kidding.
So can u not tel me ur views on premiumtlc in a prv8 msg,cant quite figure out how to send one.
Best regards
sheryar

[sheryarmajid]

@ Hamlet - "Who was your Mediatel contact? (always aks for Mr Mike Charlesworth or Mr Kerry Gill and tell them that their old friend Hamlet did send you - but I'd love to hear who's your contact or what really went wrong)"

I'm surprised to hear that, very surprised:
Think Kerry is female btw

Originally Posted by silentgenius

i dont get the joke!

[Hamlet]

It was two things: First of all, I am not an old friend of this Mike Charlesworth, I know another guy with that name.
I am not related to any telephone or PR company, but I do know quite a lot about some of them.
I am not a Fraudanalyst for Telcos, but working for the German police, although they do not always want me to do so...

The other story was that I thought KERRY was a male name.

About Premium TLC: We are on the other side of the PR biz, we are investigating cases of illegal use of PR - so Premium TLC can be a good company for legal Premium Rate Services, it can even be - from the view of the fraudsters - a good company for illegal Premium Rate Services. I just don't know. I don't like them because they are not assisting our investigations but hinder them. That's all.

If I would need to use international PR numbers for a legitimate service I would prefer a company that is on the market for years. I don't know if Premium TLC is on the market for many years, but I do know that other companies mentioned in that thread are.

Do you know Netpond? Maybe you should ask there. It's netpond.com
This is a biz community, mainly adult, but there are some guys over there with decades of experience. Or join the Telemedia Network on telemedianetwork.ning.com
(I'm not related to Netpond or TMN)

We can't help you further.

Kind regards

Hamlet

PS: Who is a reseller and who is not? That's not easy to say... I admit that I don't know it.

[Hamlet]

Have you seen the posting of El Gringo here?
http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/s...4&postcount=11

Premium TLC is using an UK number by Sound Advertising. As far as I know, Sound Advertising is related to Mediatel (to be as exact as possible: Mediatel is a trading name of Sound Advertising, see here).

This may be seen as a hint where Premium TLC gets its numbers from. Go, do me a favour and ask Mr Scalia from Premium TLC if he is a Mediatel reseller...
Mike Charlesworth responsible for Premium TLC numbers? That would be a really really good twist

[El Gringo]

http://www.premiumtlc.com/

PRN code name : Austria Mobile 5
Prefix : 438.209
Test Number : 0043820976649
Type : International
Service : VOICE, ADULT
PAYOUT
DAILY WEEKLY NORMAL
0.0600 0.0800 N/A
Terms of payment : EVERY 7 DAYS | NO DELAY
.................................................. ...........
seit 30.01.2009
Kwak Telecom Ltd.
CYPRUS
-----------------------------------------------------
PRN code name : Austria Mobile 7
Prefix : 438.209
Test Number : 0043820977897
Type : International
Service : VOICE, ADULT
PAYOUT
DAILY WEEKLY NORMAL
0.0700 0.0850 0.0900
Terms of payment : EVERY 15 DAYS | NO DELAY
.................................................. ...
seit 12.06.2009
Telco AG
------------------------------------------
PRN code name : Austria Mobile 8
Prefix : 438.209
Test Number : 004382090909744
Type : International
Service : VOICE, ADULT
PAYOUT
DAILY WEEKLY NORMAL
0.0700 0.0850 N/A
Terms of payment : EVERY 7 DAYS | NO DELAY
..............................................
seit 27.02.2009
SNT Multiconnect GmbH & CO KG
---------------------------------------
PRN code name : Austria Mobile 9
Prefix : 438.208
Test Number : 0043820897284
Type : International
Service : VOICE, ADULT
PAYOUT
DAILY WEEKLY NORMAL
0.07 0.077 0.10
Terms of payment : EVERY 30 DAYS | 45 DAYS DELAY
.................................................. ...
seit 12.06.2009
Telco AG
----------------------------------------
PRN code name : Austria NGN
Prefix : 438.209
Test Number : 0043820949401060
Type : International
Service : VOICE, ADULT
PAYOUT
DAILY WEEKLY NORMAL
0.075 0.085 0.085
Terms of payment : EVERY 7 DAYS | NO DELAY
.................................................. .....
seit 10.04.2009
Ambavox AG
------------------------------------
http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/s...85&postcount=2

'you can judge a person by the company they keep'........an English saying

[Hamlet]

Kwak Telecom = www.premium-rates.com, possibly they get (some of) their numbers from Phonegroup SA.
status: Reseller, origin: Germany (Bavaria)

Ambavox = possibly related to people formerly working for DTMS/ATMS

Telco AG ~ Mobilkom Liechtenstein ?

SNT (formerly known as Extracom): German company

[alexshark]

Alex from Premium TLC here, I can help you with your needs feel free to contact me trough premiumtlc.com contact form or PM here.
Regards

[Hamlet]

Buona sera, cappeonghe, nice to meet you!

Well, thank you for your invitation to use the PTLC contact form - but I don't like to write e-mails to a Belize offshore company. PM is a possibility, but I wouldn't like to get answers private which are interesting to the public.

Maybe you want to answer some simple questions here:
1. How is it possible that you are offering Intermatica Emsat numbers when Intermatica declares that this is not authorized? Are you stealing numbers or are you just a reseller of stolen numbers? You know what ricettazione does mean?

2. Who do you get your numbers from?

3. Do you have any protective mechanisms to prevent the abuse of your numbers?

4. Have any of your numbers been misused and what are you doing to stop this? (We offer you any help necessary to identify the ones misusing your numbers)

5. Is it correct that postings on The Scream have been deleted because they did contain false information about your company? (Would you please send me a PM about postings that did contain false information? We never have the intention to denigrate anyone, but you know that it's not easy to track down scams with international numbers)

I am glad to see you here because communication is always a good solution. I rank Premium TLC as a reseller of international numbers you get by a company that is one level above Premium-TLC. I don't want to speculate in public, but maybe it's PG or GB. What's strange to me is the fact that numbers did appear on Asian boards. Keeping in mind your own relation to Asia it seems possible that you did offer your numbers on those boards for Premium-TLC, but I don't know.

My German friends want to get in touch with Mr Hill from ITU again because they want the abuse of international numbers stopped. Any cooperation would be appreciated. It seems clear that numbers are not only abused when scammers use them, but the numbers are abused in any case where the original owner of the numbers does not know about any sharing of international fees ("short stopping"). I won't tell you news that national carriers MUST be involved somehow when it comes to "short stopping".

There will be questions to ITU and national regulators until the answers are given...

[alexshark]

Buona sera, cappeonghe, nice to meet you!

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Good evening, nice to meet u as well!

Well, thank you for your invitation to use the PTLC contact form - but I don't like to write e-mails to a Belize offshore company. PM is a possibility, but I wouldn't like to get answers private which are interesting to the public

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Why not, sandy beaches, deep blue sea and tropical cocktails! Much better than the miserable British weather of the past weeks.

Maybe you want to answer some simple questions here:
1. How is it possible that you are offering Intermatica Emsat numbers when Intermatica declares that this is not authorized? Are you stealing numbers or are you just a reseller of stolen numbers? You know what ricettazione does mean?

Originally Posted by Hamlet

We are resellers of Emsat numbers. I don't understand what you mean with stealing but I don't think that's the case. Please explain more...

2. Who do you get your numbers from?

Originally Posted by Hamlet

If you had asked a power seller on ebay where he gets those cheap amazing USD memory sticks, would you expect him to tell you his source?
It would be against our business to reveal our numbers providers, but I can tell you they are many. Of course some we get them from the original source and some we don't. You here are good enough to do some more homework and reveal the carriers providing most of the solutions out there I think, actually if you would eventually give me the list that would be very helpful.

3. Do you have any protective mechanisms to prevent the abuse of your numbers?

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Of course we do. In case of abuses we risk to not get paid by the carrier that is why we need to be sure all runs clean and smooth. To answer your question yes we have several antifraud in place on the system. I would like to understand what do you mean exactly with abuse, because if you refer to the missed calls you talk about a lot on this site, they are probably 1% of the possible abuses in this kind of business unfortunately.

4. Have any of your numbers been misused and what are you doing to stop this? (We offer you any help necessary to identify the ones misusing your numbers)

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Of course it happened and of course it will again. Once we receive an abuse report we block the number immediately and revoke it to the company using it. In case of criminal investigations the details of the abusers are provided to the authorities.

5. Is it correct that postings on The Scream have been deleted because they did contain false information about your company? (Would you please send me a PM about postings that did contain false information? We never have the intention to denigrate anyone, but you know that it's not easy to track down scams with international numbers)

Originally Posted by Hamlet

My first intention was to reply to that post explaining those numbers did not belong to Premium TLC as people pointed out in the thread but probably the fact of registering with @premiumtlc.com email was not getting me approved and allow me to post. If you still have the log of that thread somewhere I will read it once more and explain you where and how people were accusing our company erroneously.

I am glad to see you here because communication is always a good solution. I rank Premium TLC as a reseller of international numbers you get by a company that is one level above Premium-TLC. I don't want to speculate in public, but maybe it's PG or GB. What's strange to me is the fact that numbers did appear on Asian boards. Keeping in mind your own relation to Asia it seems possible that you did offer your numbers on those boards for Premium-TLC, but I don't know.

Originally Posted by Hamlet

The only real relation I have with Asia is a Thai wife but I think that's not what you refer to. There are companies we offer numbers to that reselle them to the Asian market as far as I know.


Best regards

Alex

[Hamlet]

Mille grazie for the moment

[alexshark]

Mille grazie for the moment

Originally Posted by Hamlet

[Hamlet]

We are resellers of Emsat numbers. I don't understand what you mean with stealing but I don't think that's the case. Please explain more...

Originally Posted by alexshark

EMSAT numbers are built up like this: 0088213-XX-YYYY...
XX is like a "country code" and defines the company using the numbers, for example:
0088213-99-YYYY... could be given to "The Scream Ltd"

So when 0088213-AB-YYYYY is abused one could ask the owner of all 0088213-AB numbers. But if you do so, you get to hear that they do not know about a company using that numbers.

So the number is "stolen" from the company owning all the 0088213-AB-YYYY numbers.

It's the same story that happened with OPTUS in Australia, they have stolen numbers from Tuavalu (TV).

Technically calls to those stolen numbers never reach the EMSAT network ("short stopping"). This happens with the knowledge of the companies sometimes and without the knowledge of the companies sometimes. If it is happening without the knowledge of the owner of the numbers the numbers can be called "stolen".

The "thief" may be company 1 who is selling the numkbers to company 2 who is selling the numbers to... who is selling the numbers to you who are selling the numbers to company I who is selling the numbers to company II who is selling the numbers to company III who is selling the numbers to a fraudster.

Who is to blame? Nobody knows...

One could investigate from the top, but you won't get far, because on the top you have Eutelsat and - for example - Intermatica. They say that there is NO selling of numbers. You can try to find the company that's on the top of the value chain - this could be PHONEGROUP in Switzerland [edit: "value chain" here means the part of the value chain between the "short stopping" carrier and the "number owning" carrier/provider - and it is limited to the information you get via google] (because they say they are the authorized EMSAT dealers although the owner of the numbers don't know of ANY authorized dealer)

Or you can investigate from the other side: If a person is dialling 0088213-AB-YYYY he has to pay money to his national carrier. So if you follow the money you get stuck here. But then the national carrier is the first point to start an investigation: who are they giving the money to?

The problem is that not too many people know enough about these things. I guess that - for example - only 5 German police officers know that...

If you had asked a power seller on ebay where he gets those cheap amazing USD memory sticks, would you expect him to tell you his source?

He wouldn't tell me, but possibly he must tell it to the police. But: there is no police investigating international numbers. There are German police officers that WOULD investigate - so it's not surprising that Germany is black listed for many numbers. Oh, no, of course you can tell me a different reason... By the way: who is telling you which countries are blacklisted and do you know why they are blacklisted?

It would be against our business to reveal our numbers providers, but I can tell you they are many.

It's all very complicated and the fact that there are many providers for you (as for any other reseller) does not make it easier... But a few levels above there may only be two or three big companies... Companies you possibly do not know because you do not need to know them. Only I would want to know them to better understand it...

Of course some we get them from the original source and some we don't.

What is an original source for Zimbabwe or Sierra Leone numbers? A nice african dictator? Sorry...

You here are good enough to do some more homework and reveal the carriers providing most of the solutions out there I think, actually if you would eventually give me the list that would be very helpful.

I don't understand this completely. "Carriers" are the original owners of the numbers? Then it's easy: I would say that Cable&Wireless would be #1

In case of abuses we risk to not get paid by the carrier

Who is the "carrier"? The company giving you the numbers or the company owning the numbers or the companies doing business with the national carriers collecting the [edit: FEES] (not numbers, sorry) ? Most of the money in cases of fraud is made by the carriers. That's the problem: They have the key to the solution, but they make money with the scams. So why should they give anyone the key to the solution? Why should they stop scams?

The carrier will get paid, at least he will get some of the money, in most cases most of the money... you will not get paid and most of the victims will not get a refund.

that is why we need to be sure all runs clean and smooth.

If all the companies would do this the fraud would not be possible. The only possibility to understand this paradoxon is: The carriers do not TELL you that there is fraud going on... For example: A danish carrier blocks access to 0088213 numbers owned by an italian company. But they never got in touch with that company. Why not? Because they do not really want the scams to be stopped, because they make profit with it.
In Danish articles they said it has been YOUR numbers that have been abused (from the 0088213-30 range). But I guess you never have been contacted by the danish Telco or by Telia from Sweden...

[edit: This was the story:

"Telia has managed to reveal details about the bogus number, which means some days has cheated Danes to dial an expensive satellite telephone offers. The number is controlled by a company in America, among other liver of sex services. The small Central American country Belize houses a company called Premium TLC Inc. is the company that controls the number +88 213213340, which is used in contexts scams During the last days.
...
'At TDC informs the press service that we are not aware of subscribers who have been affected to the fraud, but that TDC still has chosen to do the same as Telia, namely close to call the number. Number administrator Premium TLC Inc offers according to its website an variety of services, including sexual services seem to be an important part."

The danish TDC never did contact the "owner" of that number range]

I would like to understand what do you mean exactly with abuse, because if you refer to the missed calls you talk about a lot on this site, they are probably 1% of the possible abuses in this kind of business unfortunately.

Many of the abuse schemes are not fraud and therefore I don't really care about it.

Once we receive an abuse report we block the number immediately and revoke it to the company using it. In case of criminal investigations the details of the abusers are provided to the authorities.

I guess you would not hear about any abuse, because the national carriers in the countries barr the number without communicating this to the original owner of the numbers. That's the best way to keep the scams going on: The national carrier says, when it is asked to do something against it, "we can't do anything" and you may not even be asked...

My first intention was to reply to that post explaining those numbers did not belong to Premium TLC as people pointed out in the thread but probably the fact of registering with @premiumtlc.com email was not getting me approved and allow me to post. If you still have the log of that thread somewhere I will read it once more and explain you where and how people were accusing our company erroneously.

Ok. Speaking for myself I only post stuff I have investigated and of course I know that it is often full of errors. But very often it's a way to get in touch with companies/people. Just like it's happening here. And it's good that it's happening.

Sorry, maybe you don't understand some things I'm saying - I'm not a native speaker and I had my last English lessons 20 years ago

The only real relation I have with Asia is a Thai wife but I think that's not what you refer to.

In a way it was... I knew that you have a relation to Thailand, but I did not know that the relation was your wife

[alexshark]

EMSAT numbers are built up like this: 0088213-XX-YYYY...
XX is like a "country code" and defines the company using the numbers, for example:
0088213-99-YYYY... could be given to "The Scream Ltd"

So when 0088213-AB-YYYYY is abused one could ask the owner of all 0088213-AB numbers. But if you do so, you get to hear that they do not know about a company using that numbers.

So the number is "stolen" from the company owning all the 0088213-AB-YYYY numbers.

It's the same story that happened with OPTUS in Australia, they have stolen numbers from Tuavalu (TV).

Technically calls to those stolen numbers never reach the EMSAT network ("short stopping"). This happens with the knowledge of the companies sometimes and without the knowledge of the companies sometimes. If it is happening without the knowledge of the owner of the numbers the numbers can be called "stolen".

The "thief" may be company 1 who is selling the numkbers to company 2 who is selling the numbers to... who is selling the numbers to you who are selling the numbers to company I who is selling the numbers to company II who is selling the numbers to company III who is selling the numbers to a fraudster.

Who is to blame? Nobody knows...

One could investigate from the top, but you won't get far, because on the top you have Eutelsat and - for example - Intermatica. They say that there is NO selling of numbers. You can try to find the company that's on the top of the value chain - this could be PHONEGROUP in Switzerland [edit: "value chain" here means the part of the value chain between the "short stopping" carrier and the "number owning" carrier/provider - and it is limited to the information you get via google] (because they say they are the authorized EMSAT dealers although the owner of the numbers don't know of ANY authorized dealer)

Or you can investigate from the other side: If a person is dialling 0088213-AB-YYYY he has to pay money to his national carrier. So if you follow the money you get stuck here. But then the national carrier is the first point to start an investigation: who are they giving the money to?

The problem is that not too many people know enough about these things. I guess that - for example - only 5 German police officers know that...

Originally Posted by Hamlet

All the numbers we provide are published on our site, including full test numbers. Do you think if any of those numbers were "stolen" as you define them we would have not contacted by the owner so far? If we had something to hide we would not have listed them on our home page believe me.

He wouldn't tell me, but possibly he must tell it to the police. But: there is no police investigating international numbers. There are German police officers that WOULD investigate - so it's not surprising that Germany is black listed for many numbers. Oh, no, of course you can tell me a different reason... By the way: who is telling you which countries are blacklisted and do you know why they are blacklisted?

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Not all our providers blacklist Germany so I would not be able to answer your question sorry.

It's all very complicated and the fact that there are many providers for you (as for any other reseller) does not make it easier... But a few levels above there may only be two or three big companies... Companies you possibly do not know because you do not need to know them. Only I would want to know them to better understand it...
What is an original source for Zimbabwe or Sierra Leone numbers? A nice african dictator? Sorry...
I don't understand this completely. "Carriers" are the original owners of the numbers? Then it's easy: I would say that Cable&Wireless would be #1

Originally Posted by Hamlet

With carrier I mean the company who releases the first shares of the collected money from international traffic to the reseller or to the promoter.

Who is the "carrier"? The company giving you the numbers or the company owning the numbers or the companies doing business with the national carriers collecting the [edit: FEES] (not numbers, sorry) ? Most of the money in cases of fraud is made by the carriers. That's the problem: They have the key to the solution, but they make money with the scams. So why should they give anyone the key to the solution? Why should they stop scams?

The carrier will get paid, at least he will get some of the money, in most cases most of the money... you will not get paid and most of the victims will not get a refund.

Originally Posted by Hamlet

It can get much worse than this for a reseller like us, for example to pay our traffic providers and not to receive a single penny from the carrier.

If all the companies would do this the fraud would not be possible. The only possibility to understand this paradoxon is: The carriers do not TELL you that there is fraud going on... For example: A danish carrier blocks access to 0088213 numbers owned by an italian company. But they never got in touch with that company. Why not? Because they do not really want the scams to be stopped, because they make profit with it.
In Danish articles they said it has been YOUR numbers that have been abused (from the 0088213-30 range). But I guess you never have been contacted by the danish Telco or by Telia from Sweden...

[edit: This was the story:

"Telia has managed to reveal details about the bogus number, which means some days has cheated Danes to dial an expensive satellite telephone offers. The number is controlled by a company in America, among other liver of sex services. The small Central American country Belize houses a company called Premium TLC Inc. is the company that controls the number +88 213213340, which is used in contexts scams During the last days.
...
'At TDC informs the press service that we are not aware of subscribers who have been affected to the fraud, but that TDC still has chosen to do the same as Telia, namely close to call the number. Number administrator Premium TLC Inc offers according to its website an variety of services, including sexual services seem to be an important part."

The danish TDC never did contact the "owner" of that number range]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

We never had 0088213213340 in our pool of numbers. Whoever wrote that article is a complete idiot that probably learnt one week before how to google Emsat 88 213 and bad luck premium tlc was popping up on top of the results.
Nobody has ever contact us regarding this matter, of course to write about some little black guy in a central American island scamming the whole Europe sounds so cool...

Many of the abuse schemes are not fraud and therefore I don't really care about it.

Originally Posted by Hamlet

There are many different type of frauds in the international premium rate numbers business.
You only talk about frauds to the end users. You never mention frauds to the operators, to the collecting carrier, to the reseller etc...

I guess you would not hear about any abuse, because the national carriers in the countries barr the number without communicating this to the original owner of the numbers. That's the best way to keep the scams going on: The national carrier says, when it is asked to do something against it, "we can't do anything" and you may not even be asked....

Originally Posted by Hamlet

The operator in the country of the fraud is the one to blame as you point out. They could get to the company that terminates the call by going trough the routing tables from first to last.

Ok. Speaking for myself I only post stuff I have investigated and of course I know that it is often full of errors. But very often it's a way to get in touch with companies/people. Just like it's happening here. And it's good that it's happening

Sorry, maybe you don't understand some things I'm saying - I'm not a native speaker and I had my last English lessons 20 years ago .

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Mine is way worse.

In a way it was... I knew that you have a relation to Thailand, but I did not know that the relation was your wife

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Arrivederci

[Hamlet]

I will try to get a statement of one of the number owners next week.

[Hamlet]

All the numbers we provide are published on our site, including full test numbers. Do you think if any of those numbers were "stolen" as you define them we would have not contacted by the owner so far? If we had something to hide we would not have listed them on our home page believe me.

Originally Posted by alexshark

Ok.
So these numbers are used with an authorisation of the owner of the numbers?

0088213 21 3064 0088213213064 code 21 unknown
0088213 21 3375 0088213213375 code 21 unknown

So it seems as if I have remembered it wrong. The code you offered was "21" which is not assigned and therefore belongs to Telespazio as the owner of 0088213. I thought you also had Intermatica numbers.

Antarctica was
008823462275, wasn't it?

Well, the owner of that number is here

---
8823462259
8823462478
8823462479
---

Please if anybody has complaints on +882 34 please get in touch with me at afink@gni.ch. Above mentioned numbers are not in service and if they are abused we want to know.

Originally Posted by Andreas Fink

Mr Fink may look up if he gave Mr Scalia the licence to use 008823462275

[Mr Scalia always did write "Antarctica", whereas other companies had the "Antartica misspelling", originally coming from PHONEGROUP and GLOBALBILLING:
see
+882346999 --> Globalbilling / Novintum (Mr Roger St., Mr. Timothy C., Mr "Daniel" Dragan A.)
+8823460878
so Mr Scalia may have a different souce. ]

[alexshark]

Ok.
So these numbers are used with an authorisation of the owner of the numbers?

0088213 21 3064 0088213213064 code 21 unknown
0088213 21 3375 0088213213375 code 21 unknown

So it seems as if I have remembered it wrong. The code you offered was "21" which is not assigned and therefore belongs to Telespazio as the owner of 0088213. I thought you also had Intermatica numbers.

Antarctica was
008823462275, wasn't it?

Well, the owner of that number is here

---
8823462259
8823462478
8823462479
---

Mr Fink may look up if he gave Mr Scalia the licence to use 008823462275

[Mr Scalia always did write "Antarctica", whereas other companies had the "Antartica misspelling", originally coming from PHONEGROUP and GLOBALBILLING:
see
+882346999 --> Globalbilling / Novintum (Mr Roger St., Mr. Timothy C., Mr "Daniel" Dragan A.)
+8823460878
so Mr Scalia may have a different souce. ]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Hello sorry for late reply, I never got an email notice about your reply and I am too busy lately to go around forums.

We get our +88 from Phonegroup who is a reseller of someone unknown to me (if I knew it I would probably get them from a direct source), the rest I don't know and personally I don't care.

If Mr.Fink or any other has something to ask to us just fill a contact form at our premium rate numbers premiumtlc.com site and I will be happy to give him all the info needed on how we got the numbers, who from, on what dates etc, etc, etc.

Nobody has ever been contacting us claiming the numbers are theirs so me think you are doing a lot of fuss for nothing here.

Just my 2 cents

[Hamlet]

If Phonegroup is offering Emsat numbers saying that they are authorised to do so and the owner of the numbers says that nobody is authorised - then one of them is lying.
Thank you for your useful contribution. Mille grazie! So if the numbers involved before have not been your numbers it may have been numbers given to another company - by Phonegroup. The history of Phonegroup numbers involved in fraud, scam or at least "grey area business" goes on and on...

[alexshark]

If someone unknown would jump in your car and start to drive it would you not tell him "hey what the hell are you doing?". The fact that the owner of the numbers is saying nothing makes me think they know exactly what is going on...

[Hamlet]

from BOFAT/ITU/TM communication:

Those companies state that they can let you use 00 88213 numbers because they are “authorized dealers” of Emsat system.

We [Intermatica?]and Telespazio did not authorise anyone to be Emsat Dealer!

Authorized dealer emsat systems (0088)
• Connection guaranteed at 95%

Originally Posted by phonegroup

[Phonegroup]
Sole Agent of Emsat satellite numeration

Originally Posted by NOC member list

one of the two is lying.
ITU was asked by the phone fraud experts in Germany to investigate and I know the doggedness of the Germans. ITU won't get away with blah-blah

Emsat
0088.213.550.001
0088.213.330.001
0088.213.213.001
[earlier 0088.213.88xxx]


TDCOMM (France) TDCOM......................20 XXXX
???????.............................21 XXXX
???????.............................22 XXXX
INTERMATICA (Italy) INTERMATICA.............23 XXXX
...
INTERMATICA INTERMATICA.....................33 XXXX
... ??? ... 55xxxx

...
INTERMATICA INTERMATICA.....................88 XXXX

------------------------------------------------------------


by the way:
Amik (Lebanon) AMIK................................90 XXXX

is this the carrier mentioned in the Mirror?


We've investigated the multi-million-pound international trade in phone numbers that allows a "carrier" in Lebanon to pass a Sierra Leone phone number to "resellers" in countries like Cyprus, the Czech Republic and Belize, who in turn rent them out to anyone who wants to use them to run a "promotion". Or a scam.


Amik On Line Sarl
Elie Khoury Building Property Number 218/3, Beirut, Lebanon