2010 BT Network Hacked(again):customers told to pay(again)

[Steve__M]

Hello all, I am the Steve__M quoted from CAG forums.

Well done to DiddyDave for taking the action he has.

I have also emailed Exeter Express & Echo. I tried calling Fran but the number was engaged - will try again later. I have contacted my local neighbourhood watch, who circulate emails to people.

I phoned BT but got through to their offshore call centre. I gave them the reference number provided by DiddyDave, but they then cut off my call.

[anythingwilldo]

I reported it first to talktalk because they billed me and they told me to report it to bt. When I asked to speak to the lady refered to in DiddyDave's post they couldn't find any record of her neither by name or by the ref number. The lady at bt was very helpful and gave me the full address of the company that owns the phone number. They also have an 0845 number and the bt lady gave me that but she rang it first- it only went to a recorded message.

I rang the Exeter newspaper but because they had heard nothing else I got the impression they weren't convinced. The reporter rang me back yesterday to say that others had now rung her. Thanks to everyone who contacted her the story is being followed up. If possible could someone let me know when it is in the paper so that I can buy a copy.

I contacted talktalk again yesterday and went through to there technical department. The guy there has agree to credit the money back. The downside is they can't put a block on premium numbers for me because I am scheduled to transfer from them back to bt on 12 July. Just got to hope it doesn't happen again between now and the 12th.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for there help and advice. It would be nice to find out how many people have been affected.

[Steve__M]

I have just phoned Fran at the Express and Echo, as suggested by Dave, and she was very interested to hear my story.

I would say it took a while to get through because her line was engaged. But please persist.

She reckons the story will be in the paper tomorrow or Saturday.

[Steve__M]

The reporter from the Express and Echo has been in touch with TalkTalk, and TalkTalk phoned me for my details so they could investigate further. They phoned less than a couple of hours after I spoke to the reporter.

[El Gringo]

Steve,
Talk Talk uses the BT Network. Talk Talk and BT know precisely what is going on.

BT has a system in place which monitors abnormal billing patterns. It's called AIT(Artificial inflation of traffic). BT can see these calls are being generated from only one small part of the UK.
http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/t30220.html?
It's used to protect BT from loss due to fraud.

example:

A crook would open 50 bogus customer accounts. Premium rate numbers(revenue share) are called on these 50 lines and the fraudster collects a share of the revenue.

When BT then bills the 50 bogus accounts they then realise there is no customer to pay the bill.


The only difference with your case is that BT(and Talk Talk) can see that the calls are being generated on accounts of real customers who can be conned ('the calls must have been made from your phone' 'do you have anybody else in the house-partner children' ) and threatened (disconnection) into paying these bills.

It's been going on from at least 2004.

[Steve__M]

So you are saying that if the accounts were bogus, BT and TalkTalk would intervene quickly and not pay the bills.

But if the accounts are genuine, they *may* spot the pattern, but they may not intervene so quickly in the expectation that the account owners will quietly pay up, possibly without noticing?

I would always advocate people barring premium rate calls. Who gives a stuff if you can't vote for X factor?

[El Gringo]

So you are saying that if the accounts were bogus, BT and TalkTalk would intervene quickly and not pay the bills.

But if the accounts are genuine, they *may* spot the pattern, but they may not intervene so quickly in the expectation that the account owners will quietly pay up, possibly without noticing?

Originally Posted by Steve__M

yes and here is an example:

as reported in The Register

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10...lewest_icstis/
Telewest victim of XXX call scam
31st October 2005

A spokesman for Telewest said: "We became aware of a some fraudulent calls made from our street equipment in West London earlier this year.

"We immediately conducted a thorough investigation which did not identify a perpetrator, but resulted in cessation of the activity. No customers were charged for the calls."

but the Icstis(now Phonepayplus) 'investigation'

28 October 2005
Information provider N/A
Service provider Datapro Services
Information provider location N/A
Service provider location Grays, Essex
Telephone network Opera Telecom Limited

Adjudication Details
The Secretariat was advised by a phone network of complaints from customers that calls were being made to premium rate numbers without their knowledge or consent. The network suspected fraudulent activity after observing that call patterns for the service were unusual, especially in the West London area, with some of the call durations in excess of 20 minutes.

Complaints were also received from members of the public who supplied copies of phone bills showing that calls had lasted over 20 minutes.

so why did they issue the bills?

possibly being refunded (after the public had discovered what had happened) is not the same as 'No customers were charged for the calls'

Telewest became Virgin Media and Opera Telecom renamed as Oxygen8. Oxygen8 is the same company that supplies the revenue share numbers being used now in Exeter.

Were these fraudsters closed down

2005 - 2010 the same areas of London and always Virgin Media customers
http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/t30060.html?

Oxygen8 and Call Republic again.

they now evade Phonepayplus investigation by appearing to comply with the 'industry' voluntary code of practice (calls must not exceed 20 mins).

and the numbers now used are supplied by Switch Services ltd.
------------------------------------------
more BT victims from 2004
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle449233.ece

[Beebeebuzz]

I have had two months now with calls to 09829319990 costing around £7 a time, one of which was made whilst my partner and I were in Wales on holiday!!! I'm in Clyst Heath, Exeter.

[mellicott]

I just called Sky to place a bar on PR calls, they were not too helpful.

I was told that if I placed a bar on PR calls then I would also not be able to make international calls, not that I make that many! I fail to see how if a customer wants to stop PR calls then they would also not want international calls, where's the connection?

I think it's time to say goodbye to sky......

Originally Posted by Cormoran

Oh great, Sky told me they couldn't block PR calls at all!!! They really are crap

[Steve__M]

Hello neighbour! I'm in "Kings Heath".

Have you reported them to your phone company prior to now?

I have had two months now with calls to 09829319990 costing around £7 a time, one of which was made whilst my partner and I were in Wales on holiday!!! I'm in Clyst Heath, Exeter.

Originally Posted by Beebeebuzz

[Cormoran]

Why aren't BT & TalkTalk interested in who, within their companies, has access to the equiptment to be able to make these calls? Surely they would have the info as to the time, date and exchange that the calls were made through. I suppose it's easier for them to bully the customers into paying with threats of being cut off, black mark credit listings and to send in the balliffs.

PhonepayPlus has the following information about the premium rate number 09829319990.

•The number offers an Adult Service. This is promoted through various sources including newspapers and magazines and you use it with your telephone and mobile phone.
•This service costs £1.50 per minute (plus any phone network surcharges - check with your phone company for full details).
If you would like to find out more about this service you should contact the company listed below.

Call Republic Ltd
Somerset House
40-49 Price Street
Birmingham
B4 6LZ
0845 0099 899

PhonepayPlus has the following information about the premium rate number 09829323380.

•The number offers an Adult Content service. This is promoted through various sources including magazines, the internet and television and you use it with your telephone or mobile phone.
•This service costs £1.50 per minute (plus any phone network surcharges - check with your phone company for full details).
If you would like to find out more about this service you should contact the company listed below.


Call Republic Ltd
Somerset House
40-49 Price Street
Birmingham
B4 6LZ
0845 0099 899

Is it not 'odd' that the calls come from the same content provider? Is there a connection?

[Steve__M]

This has now been reported in the Exeter Express and Echo (July 9th edition)

Here's a quote

Jason Mann, a spokesperson from BT said "We are *not* aware of a widespread problem and we have been in touch with PhonePayPlus part of Ofcom who say they've received no complaints of this nature as yet either. And this number in question appears to be not in use.

Jaw-dropping

They are not aware of a widespread problem because they have turned a blind eye and are cutting off people who complain to their 0800 800150 number.

I have already made a complaint to PhonePayPlus:

http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk/output/default.aspx

If the number is not in use, why aren't they curious to know why it appears on people's bills.

[Cormoran]

@Steve_M

Good article.

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/B...l/article.html

[El Gringo]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07..._west_wickham/
Phantom phone scam hits another village
BT's roadside boxes fingered
2nd July 2004

A spokesman for BT insisted that the problem of premium rate phone calls appearing on customers' phone bills was "not widespread".

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/B...l/article.html
BT probes phone users' bogus sex line charges
July 09, 2010

Jason Mann, a spokesperson from BT said: "We are not aware of a wide spread problem and we have been in touch with Phone Pay Plus, part of Ofcom who say they've received no complaints of this nature as yet either.

The job of the BT PR person is to mislead with out blatantly lying.
Is he referring to the fact that these cases are 'localised'?

Phonepayplus only log complaints if the complaint appears to be against their code of practice. The call was less than 20 minutes so as far as Phonepayplus is concerned it appeared compliant with the 'industry' code.

well done everybody (and you have been)

have any of you heard the term 'gamekeepers and poachers'?

[Steve__M]

I reckon there are, so far, 10 separate people complaining here and at whocallsme which is quite widespread I'd say given that many people won't have noticed the bill, or won't think about researching the internet.

At whocallsme: Wommy, powderblue+neighbour, CC+neighbour, "r".

Here: DiddyDave, beebeebuzz, anythingwilldo and me.

The people in the Exeter Express and Echo story are me, DiddyDave and possibly anythingwilldo.

[anythingwilldo]

I reckon there are, so far, 10 separate people complaining here and at whocallsme which is quite widespread I'd say given that many people won't have noticed the bill, or won't think about researching the internet.

At whocallsme: Wommy, powderblue+neighbour, CC+neighbour, "r".

Here: DiddyDave, beebeebuzz, anythingwilldo and me.

The people in the Exeter Express and Echo story are me, DiddyDave and possibly anythingwilldo.

Originally Posted by Steve__M

I like your powers of deduction. You are correct, I am the other person in the Express and Echo.

[El Gringo]

http://phoneowner.info/Number.aspx/09829319990

another one?

[mellicott]

I reckon there are, so far, 10 separate people complaining here and at whocallsme which is quite widespread I'd say given that many people won't have noticed the bill, or won't think about researching the internet.

At whocallsme: Wommy, powderblue+neighbour, CC+neighbour, "r".

Here: DiddyDave, beebeebuzz, anythingwilldo and me.

The people in the Exeter Express and Echo story are me, DiddyDave and possibly anythingwilldo.

Originally Posted by Steve__M

I've mentioned it to 2 neighbours now, both checked their bills and found this number on it!!

So, in my row of 11 houses, 1, 4, 6 and 11 have all been done.

[Steve__M]

Hi Mellicot (posted and mailed)

Whereabouts are you. I'm in Kings Heath (nr Tesco). I am aware of 5 other people in Kings Heath being hit (via PC Sharon Tooze).

I missed you off my list.

10+mellicot+4 more near neighbours+mellicots neighbours=18 people (unless mellicot's neighbours are my neighbours!)

[mike99]

Oh great, Sky told me they couldn't block PR calls at all!!! They really are crap

Originally Posted by mellicott

Sky can (and must) block calls from your phone to 09 premium rate numbers if you ask them to. This will not affect international calls. Sky are talking nonsense here, but this is not unusual. I have had protracted correspondence with a number of network operators and it is virtually impossible to get a straight story from any of them when it comes to premium rate. Ordinary customer service staff generally don't have clue, and more senior people just lie.

What you can't (necessarily) do (it's down to the discretion of the individual network) is block calls to or from short codes or block incoming reverse charge texts (Vodafone or T-mobile will let you do this; the others won't; even with Vodafone & T-mobile it's a bugger of a job to get them to do this).

My advice:

Block all outgoing 09 calls from all your family phones (land line or mobile).

Block everything other premium rate "service" that you can with your network - or change to a network that will allow you to block this excrement.

Register all your phones with TPS.

Use "say no to 0870" to find geographical alternatives for all your 08 number calls.

Be careful about entering your mobile number on websites - even perfectly reputable firms like Tecos sometimes team up with crooks when it comes to running premium rate "services".

Report any thefts/frauds from you phone account to the chocolate fire-guard known as "PhonepayPlus". If they refuse to help (as they often do), launch a complaint against PP+ and keep pursuing it until they give in - they will if you are persistent!

Email your MP.

[Cormoran]

Sky can (and must) block calls from your phone to 09 premium rate numbers if you ask them to. This will not affect international calls. Sky are talking nonsense here, but this is not unusual.

What you can't (necessarily) do (it's down to the discretion of the individual network) is block calls to or from short codes or block incoming reverse charge texts (Vodafone or T-mobile will let you do this; the others won't; even with Vodafone & T-mobile it's a bugger of a job to get them to do this).

Originally Posted by mike99

@Mike99,

Sky told me that if I block PR calls then my international calls will be blocked also. No amount of questions as to how and why could I get a clear answer. I will contact OFCOM tommorrow to see if they have a view, although I will get the usual 'sit on the fence' answer.

We remember only to well the agro we caused and had with the VF eforum regarding the subject of blocking short codes, eventually after many months they caved in to the loud voice of its account holders. (I found out recently that I am no longer black listed & blocked on the VF eforum.)

To its credit T-Mobile make it easier than all the networks to block shortcodes, by logging on to your online account all you need to do is check the box next to 'charge to account bar' and it's done. VF is another story, they will deny it can be done until you refer to the notice that was once on the eforum which has now been removed. I was also told it could not be added to my PAYT account but after asking for a manager the young lady agreed it could be done. Why can't they all act like TM?

[mike99]

@Mike99,

Sky told me that if I block PR calls then my international calls will be blocked also. No amount of questions as to how and why could I get a clear answer. I will contact OFCOM tommorrow to see if they have a view, although I will get the usual 'sit on the fence' answer.

We remember only to well the agro we caused and had with the VF eforum regarding the subject of blocking short codes, eventually after many months they caved in to the loud voice of its account holders. (I found out recently that I am no longer black listed & blocked on the VF eforum.)

To its credit T-Mobile make it easier than all the networks to block shortcodes, by logging on to your online account all you need to do is check the box next to 'charge to account bar' and it's done. VF is another story, they will deny it can be done until you refer to the notice that was once on the eforum which has now been removed. I was also told it could not be added to my PAYT account but after asking for a manager the young lady agreed it could be done. Why can't they all act like TM?

Originally Posted by Cormoran

from the horse's mouth:

I don't want Premium Rate ...

This is your decision and if you want to avoid premium rate, in most cases you can. Make sure you can recognise it. It’s easy to recognise premium rate. Numbers start with ‘09’ and texts are 4, 5 or 6 digit shortcodes. 118 services are also classed as premium rate.
If you use premium rate services then look for the price.

Calls = between 10p and £1.50 a minute (calls from landlines and mobiles are different)
Texts = up to £1.50
Calls

It is possible to bar calling premium rate from your phone. Simply call your phone network (use link below for contact numbers) and request premium rate call barring.

Follow this link for contact details of your phone network

Texts

It is not possible to bar premium rate texts so if you want to avoid them make sure you keep your eyes open for prices before you text.

If you have signed up to a service and want to stop receiving premium rate text messages, send the word STOP to the short code number the text came from. If you are receiving two or more services from the same short code, send STOP ALL to the short code to unsubscribe from all the services.

If you are unsure about what to do or you receive text messages you think you did not sign up to, you or a parent/guardian/teacher should call PhonepayPlus on freephone 0800 500 212 (Mon-Fri, 8am - 6pm) or write to help@phonebrain.org.uk.

The information on this page used to be inaccurate, but (to its credit) PP+ corrected it after I complained ............. and was very persistent.

If Sky refuse to budge, report them to PP+ + insist that either PP+ change their website (again) or force Sky to obey their "rules".

[El Gringo]

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/B...l/article.html
Friday, July 09, 2010, 11:00

Jason Mann, a spokesperson from BT said: "We are not aware of a wide spread problem and we have been in touch with Phone Pay Plus, part of Ofcom who say they've received no complaints of this nature as yet either. And the number in question appears not to be in use."

today

PhonepayPlus has the following information about the premium rate number 09829323380.
and
PhonepayPlus has the following information about the premium rate number 09829319990.
gives

The number offers an Adult Content service. This is promoted through various sources including magazines, the internet and television and you use it with your telephone or mobile phone.
This service costs £1.50 per minute (plus any phone network surcharges - check with your phone company for full details).
If you would like to find out more about this service you should contact the company listed below.

Call Republic Ltd
Somerset House
40-49 Price Street
Birmingham
B4 6LZ
0845 0099 899

so anybody who find these numbers on their bill and goes to the Phonepayplus number checker will be mislead into believing these are connected to a genuine service.
how helpful!

[Cormoran]

I will contact OFCOM tommorrow to see if they have a view, although I will get the usual 'sit on the fence' answer.

Originally Posted by Cormoran

Well a call to OFCOM was the expected total waste of time. At least they didn't disappoint me! I was told that OCOM encourages competition among the networks (that'sfair) but do not have any set rules as to how the networks should operate. Hence the free for all and the reason why we, the consumers, are treated like s**t by them. Their advice was to raise a complaint to Sky and after 12 weeks take it to OTELO. Really, and that will get me where? Those who have used OTELO will understand.

I have found out that Sky do not have their own equipment in the local exchange, this is due in the next 18 months, so all connections are made through BT. This being so they operate in my area under the same set up as BT, who tell me that their is no technical reason why they should bar international calls with PR calls. If they had Sky equipment in the exchange then the set up would be totally different.

The only conclusion is that the bar on international calls is meant as a deterent against placing a bar on PR calls.

A change of providers is on the way.

Have spoken to PP+ re the info on their web site, as pointed out by Mike99. As you will have expected I was told that they have no power over the networks even if they refused to bar PR calls nothing could be done.

[mike99]

Well a call to OFCOM was the expected total waste of time. At least they didn't disappoint me! I was told that OCOM encourages competition among the networks (that'sfair) but do not have any set rules as to how the networks should operate. Hence the free for all and the reason why we, the consumers, are treated like s**t by them. Their advice was to raise a complaint to Sky and after 12 weeks take it to OTELO. Really, and that will get me where? Those who have used OTELO will understand.

I have found out that Sky do not have their own equipment in the local exchange, this is due in the next 18 months, so all connections are made through BT. This being so they operate in my area under the same set up as BT, who tell me that their is no technical reason why they should bar international calls with PR calls. If they had Sky equipment in the exchange then the set up would be totally different.

The only conclusion is that the bar on international calls is meant as a deterent against placing a bar on PR calls.

A change of providers is on the way.

Have spoken to PP+ re the info on their web site, as pointed out by Mike99. As you will have expected I was told that they have no power over the networks even if they refused to bar PR calls nothing could be done.

Originally Posted by Cormoran

Well then PP+ HAVE to change their website again to point out that you can bar outgoing calls to 09 numbers with every network except Sky.

I shall get onto this forthwith.

[mike99]

OK, done:

Dear Sir/Madam

Re http://www.phonebrain.org.uk/article.aspx?menuId=540

I don't want Premium Rate ...

This is your decision and if you want to avoid premium rate, in most cases you can. Make sure you can recognise it. It’s easy to recognise premium rate. Numbers start with ‘09’ and texts are 4, 5 or 6 digit shortcodes. 118 services are also classed as premium rate.
If you use premium rate services then look for the price.
 Calls = between 10p and £1.50 a minute (calls from landlines and mobiles are different)
 Texts = up to £1.50
Calls
It is possible to bar calling premium rate from your phone. Simply call your phone network (use link below for contact numbers) and request premium rate call barring.

Follow this link for contact details of your phone network
Texts
It is not possible to bar premium rate texts so if you want to avoid them make sure you keep your eyes open for prices before you text.

If you have signed up to a service and want to stop receiving premium rate text messages, send the word STOPto the short code number the text came from. If you are receiving two or more services from the same short code, send STOP ALL to the short code to unsubscribe from all the services.

If you are unsure about what to do or you receive text messages you think you did not sign up to, you or a parent/guardian/teacher should call PhonepayPlus on freephone 0800 500 212 (Mon-Fri, 8am - 6pm) or write tohelp@phonebrain.org.uk.

First the statement “It is possible to bar calling premium rate from your phone”. This is untrue. Most networks do allow their customers to block outgoing calls to 09 numbers (essential if you have children or live in an area suffering from “artificial traffic inflation”) but Sky does not allow this and PhonepayPlus and Ofcom insist that they have no powers to force a network to allow 09 call blocking.

Secondly the statement “It is not possible to bar premium rate texts”. This is also untrue. Both Vodafone and T-Mobile allow their customers to block incoming reverse charge SMS. There is no technical reason why all the networks could not also allow this, but they choose not to. Again, PhonepayPlus and Ofcom insist that they have no powers to force the networks to allow customers to protect themselves from this form of theft.

Please could you correct the information on your website ASAP.

Yours faithfully

etc


They will probably ignore this at first, but (don't worry) I shall pursue this matter with whatever tenacity is required.

[Cormoran]

@ Mike99,

Have you come across 'Action Fraud';

http://www.actionfraud.org.uk/home

I have looked through the website and they do cover mobile & phone fraud but I can't seem to find out exactly what they do.

[CC1]

Im outside of Exeter. have rang BT several more times but to no avail, they are so unhelpful but after I explained yet again to another guy and stated Id be happy to stand up in court and say i have not rang this number he stated 'I believe you but theres nothing that can be done'

[Steve__M]

CC has now reported (on whocallsme) that they are in Honiton, and that they and their neighbour have a different number on their bill 09829319990.

PS. Hello CC1. Can you confirm the above. What date were the calls allegedly made?

[CC1]

Hello Steve-M the number myself and a neighbour had on our bills is 09829319990 both made on 24.5.10. My neighbours are elderly and dont have a computer. I wasnt in Devon on that day and no one else has access to my home. BT have been extremely unhelpful. As for phonepayplus saying they havent had any complaints - that is rubbish as i have complained to them via their website and had no response!