bluetooth - maybe????

or more specifically connecting to broadband on 2 computers

have 2 systems, one is connect at the moment to cable broadband, this is in the loft of my house

the other is on the ground floor in a converted integral garage, i would like to be able to access the net on the downstairs computer

physically connecting them is almost impossible, but if that were the only answer then it would have to be done

i have heard about Bluetooth wireless networking but know nothing about it

is it just a matter of 2 Bluetooth adaptors or would i need adaptors and a router

the computers are about 30' away from each other with 2 wooden floors and a number of walls in the way, one of them an outside wall

[Ian]

http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/t8704.html

You may struggle to get a decent connection with the situation you described though...

Wifi/wlan has a better range, better penetration (IYSWIM), and better potential bandwidth.

[FlorenceSmith]

Tony ... been trying really hard to investigate all this bluetooth stuff, and generally tend to get told that bluetooth doesn't do well going thru walls and has a max range of 10m. It seems that wi-fi ie a wireless network system would be more reliable. I just want to find someone who actually works it!

thanks both for that, have been reading since posting the question and the sellers would have us believe that it will go through walls but users disagree, so will go with the users

so if i went with wires is that 2 network cards and a crossover cable

already have one network card in the PC for the external modem so assume a second one can live alongside it

can see no reason to ever want to add any more computers so is that it or would a router/switch box??? be needed/better

would a 30metre cable between the 2 computers be ok, that would let me run in such a way that i do not have to go through house floors ot flat roofs

[FlorenceSmith]

What about PCIMCIA (?) cards and a router?

not laptops, both standalone PC's Flo

[Ian]

2 network cards and a x-over cable *should* work
2 network cards and a hub *will* work

The x-over cable route has a few potential issues, with the pcs at either end being on or off. (hard to describe in a concise way !)

But you could try that way first and if you find its problematic, you can add a cheap hub/switch £10 - £15, as long as it has an uplink port (an uplink port with un-cross-over a cross-over cable, turning it into a normal network cable)

thanks Ian

my PC, the one with the modem attached is pretty well on all of the time, so that may be OK then

but if not then the hub/switch cost is not ott, any recommendations on make, model etc

take it at that it would not have built in firewall, how much more wouldi need to spend for that, again any recommendations??

[Memfis]

the modem usb or as i beleive connected through a network card?

what make n model is the modem?

(hubs are about 15 quid switches more advanced than hubs) where 25 pounds from maplins for 5 network ports)

Note : difference between hub and switch : in your situation not much of a difference would be made. hubs forward data from one port to all of the ports irespective of where the data has to go. switches are more advanced and only send data to the right port (it remembers which pc's are on what port on the switch).

wi-lan (sat wireless atm on my lappy in the garden, lan point inside flat) is deffinately better than bluetooth, but where possible, cable is the best option.

if you went the wi-lan route, all you would need is 2 wi-lan cards (try ebuyer).

however as i believe Ian has pointed out, the problem with linking 2 computers directly together is that the "gateway" pc must be on for the second pc to access the internet.

Have installed 2 different wi-lan setups and doing 2 more in a couple of months when i move.

hope i've been of help

~Mem

[silver]

2 cards and a x-over cable should be fine,.

I think cat5 ethernet range is abt 100 meters so you should be ok

Sil

thanks all again, am busy looking at routes to run the cable, as i said they are only 30' apart but looks as though it is 70' or 80' by cable

thats why i said it was difficult!!!

mem. the modem is a Surfboard SB4100, connected to a network card

[Memfis]

Ok, I have found a problem

on http://www.gi.com/noflash/sb4100.html the FaQ states :

I have more than one computer. Do I need more than one Motorola SURFboard computer modem?

No, if your computers are connected via a network, one Motorola cable modem will support up to 32 computers. Since each computer must have its own unique IP address - which you can order through your cable provider or ISP - expect to pay a little extra each month for each additional computer you tie in.

and

Does the SURFboard modem support multiple users?

SURFboard DOCSIS cable modems are capable of providing multi-user functionality, however your cable operator may not offer this functionality or may charge extra to enable it. Please contact your cable provider for more information.

ok so my solution with a hub WONT work becase your cable supplier only suplies one IP. So you have to use one PC as a gateway. This gateway must remain on for the second PC to access the net.

What you really need is an old 286 to use as the gateway then a lan for your 2 normal PC's so they both can access, but thats getting more expensive (local tip / market / PC fair's may be of use for old PC's - Or ask Sil to send a selection over )

So I believe there are only 2 solutions left.

1) Buy 2 network cards : ebuyer have :
DFE-538TX NWay 32 Bit PCI Bus Master Adapter with WOL
£6.59
£7.75 inc VAT
240 in stock (Usually ships same day)
QuickFind: 26041

And a cross over cable (Maplins?????) may involve adding the 2 plugs yourself. but there are plenty of cross over diagrams on the net.


2) buy 2 wireless network cards : whielst I'm on ebuyer :
Netgear MA311GE 802.11b Wireless PCI Adapter (complete)
£33.22
£39.04 inc VAT
457 in stock (Usually ships same day)
QuickFind: 43353

~Mem

thanks mem, am going the 2 network cards and a cable

looked at Maplins, need a morgage for the cable

found this supplier

http://www.affordable-pc-repairs.com...Cables2550.htm

his 30metre cables are cheap

[Memfis]

ahh see i have a maplins about 5 mins from my house so I get things cheap from there as I'm always in there

glad you are sorted

~Mem

[herne70]

am using at present if u r interested.........

just to close this one, everything fitted [2 network cards and X over cable]

both systems on XP, worked perfectly first time

thanks all for the help

[Memfis]

good to here, cheers for the update.

~Mem

[thestonefox]

Probably way too late with this posting to make any difference but either way ill make it for future reference

If you want to simply connect two computers together and cant be bothered with wires then using a wireless network between "two" computers is easy.

the current standard is 102.11g which is nice and fast

but u can still buy the 102.11b network pci cards which are cheaper and still transfer at 11mbps so its still quite fast.

Anyway here is how u do it on two Windows machines (prefereably XP)

Buy 2 PCI Wireless network cards (they have little ariels on the back and poke out the back of ur pci slot)

put one in each computer.

Share the internet connection on the computer with internet (ICS)

Then all you need to do is to set up the two cards to use "Ad Hoc" wireless network mode and pick a radio channel to use (channel 10 lets say) be sure to make sure u read any instructions about channel selection though as some countries have rules perhaps even laws about what channels you can use (as it is radio transmission)

anyway, if you go into the network connections on the computers and configure the adaptors just make sure the settings are

Ad Hoc (not infrasrtucture as this is for multiple computers and requires access points, routers etc).
Same channel on both cards (Channel 10 lets say)
SSID name is the same on both computers (WHOME lets say)

then if youre having trouble with the IP's being automatically allocated then just specify the ip's yourself

computer 1 has an IP of 192.168.0.1
subnet 255.255.0.0

computer 2 has an IP of 192.168.0.2
subnet 255.255.0.0
if you want internet then:-
Default gateway: 192.168.0.1
DNS: 192.168.0.1
WINS: 192.168.0.1

(you may not need WINS, probably will though)

Then technically when both computers are on they will find each other.

Buttttttt........Its wireless so if you select channel 10 and some cheaky fupper finds out and theyre in the 100m radius then they can connect to your network!

soo..... you can turn on the built in WEP technology on nearly all the wireless cards these days.

Basically WEP is an authorisation key that the cards need to be able to connect to each other, just set it to the same on both computers and then when you connect for the first time it will ask for the key and then just enter it and it should save it in a profle for you.

WEP key's are either 64bit (easy to remember 10 characters have to be hex characters i.e. 0123456789ABCDEF) or in 128bit (20 character long hard to crack bugger to remember but also have to be hex) I say they have to be Hex, they can sometimes be alphanumeric but dunno if this is a standard.

Anyway pick a WEP key and remember it, dont pick 0000000000 though as its so easy to guess if you do pick it then you deserve ot have your bandwidth stolen


anyway i hope this is some help to someone and shows you its easy to use wireless technology between 2 computers.


more than 2 computers then you have to use Infrastructure mode which is a whole other story which I may tell you some time

[gem]

Welcome to The Scream! thestonefox.

Thanks for your post. Why not tell us about

more than 2 computers then you have to use Infrastructure mode which is a whole other story which I may tell you some time

I for one would be interested and I'm sure that there are others.

[thestonefox]

ok ad hoc mode is basically peer to peer sharing (one computer sees another, like sticking a cross over cable into an ethernet port to the other ethernet port on the other computer), infrastructure mode is basically like when you have a hub plugged into a router which runs to the internet then all the computers are wired into the hub.

now two ways of doing this, normal network setup

have your router, hub your wired connections then buy a wireless access point which plugs into the hub, select the channel for the access point and give it an SSID

(you may need a wireless bridge if its not built in to the access point, or just use a computer and bridge the connections manually)

anyway then any computer on the wirless network will pick up the access point and act like its on the wired network. thats the best way as u can have a mixture of both wired and wireless.

you can get a wireless router which works as the access point, so it plugs into the internet connection and then as long as all computers are on the same channel and SSID namee then they will all find the router and in turn all find each other.

The bits you need for your computers are the same just PCI wireless cards, u can also get PCMCIA wireless cards and Compact Flash and Secure Digital (check ebay for real cheap prices or ebuyer.co.uk)

the actual setting up of the network on the computers is no real difference from setting up a wired network and the difference in infrastructure mode is u select just that rather than ad hoc.

thats basically it really. theres probably a few niggles in there if anyone wants to correct me or add to this then feel free

hope youre all wired up with wireless soon

oh yeah 102.11b and 102.11g are compatable but some routers dont cater for both so check this as u dont want some 102.11b cards that cant find ur 102.11g router, also 102.11g cards wont find a 102.11b router as they are much slower.

and 102.11b and 102.11g arent compatable at all with 102.11a

just as a note for you all

[silver]

thanks I keep meaning to look into wireless and your explanation was very useful

Sil

PS,. welcome to TS!

[gem]

Thanks thestonefox. I'm 'thinking' of adding wireless (for swmbo's laptop) to our wired network in the not too distant future.

[FlorenceSmith]

to herne in particular cos he offered help, but to anyone else thats known that my sis has been wanting to go wireless for her laptop:
we've eventually purchased pcimcia card for laptop and bluetooth modem, plugged 'em in, and they work!! I've wandered around the whole house with laptop and its stayed connected to net, so thats pretty good!
have also purchased printer adaptor to make that wireless too, but can't seem to get it to work at the mo
Will plod on.

[thestonefox]

just a point

you mention a bluetooth modem. if youre using the bluetooth system then you can only be connected to one device at a time (im pretty sure i think )

with wifi (102.11b or g) you can set up proper networks which are the same as wired networks

in short bluetooth is ok if u want to sync your laptop with a phone so u can dial out to the internet but after that it kinda stops being any good, in all honesty to try connecting computers for sharing over bluetooth is a bit dated when you can do it much better with wifi. If your system is working for you then may as well leave it

but if anyone is thinking about wireless then dont go down the bluetooth route as its just as cheap now to do it via WiFi

Wifi Good, Bluetooth Bad

[FlorenceSmith]

Thanks Fox We did investigate for many many weeks all the possibilities and picked expert brains left, right and centre, and ended up going down the bluetooth avenue. One of the reasons, in the end, was the costs involved. Wi-fi was going to be quite a bit more expensive. My sister, who this is all for, is disabled and only on benefits so is limited in what she can spend on such things. Having lost £700 on a conman when purchasing the laptop originally, then shes had to be careful.
We are quite pleased, after being told that bluetooth was unreliable over 10m, that the whole house seems to be covered

[herne70]

Hi Flo....

Pleased you achieved a system that works for your sister.

Apart from Internet Sharing on Wifi we have the 3 machines on a LAN so,with the printer installed on one the other two can also use/share also so this could solve your problem.