Short Number Scams '81280' - Tanla Mobile Ltd

[irc_Pedro]

I have been scammed on my Mobile Phone. A few days after joining the Orange network I started to receive text messages from ‘81280’ (managed by Tanla Mobile Ltd) asking me to join in with a quiz whose questions were ridiculously simple. Since it was clearly just a scam to get me to use a premium rate service I deleted the messages. I received a total of 13 messages, 7 of which arrived between 8.30am and 9.00am on Saturday morning 08/03/08. It appears I have been charged £1.50 per message. At no time have I requested this service, and have had to message Tanla Mobile Ltd to stop sending them in order to stop being charged.

Orange, who are my service provider, are telling me that they are in no way responsible, and are making me phone the company to get my money back. A woman in India, representing Orange, apologised and given me £5 free talk time as a gift to say sorry, explaining that it is a scam and they are powerless to do anything about it. I have a contract with Orange, not with Tanla Mobile Ltd. I pay money to Orange and they have paid Tanla Mobile Ltd, so it seems ridiculous to say that they are in no way liable for this. To confirm that this was the case I called again a day later and was told by a particularly rude english woman from Orange that it was ridiculous to suggest that Orange was in any way at fault for this, despite Tanla's history as a Scamming company (see below).

I was also given the number and web site of the regulatory body that deals with these scams (http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk ). Having trawled their site I find that the company that has been charging me has had 5 previous actions against them and been fined a total of £61,500 over the last year, also receiving a ban from operating for 6 months (from 11 Jun 2007) and for 12 months (from 05 Sep 2007). The latter would still seem to be in force!?! Several of the action are regarding almost exactly the same scenario as I am dealing with e.g. “complaints from members of the public reporting they were being charged for a service they had not requested.”

That a company can use my account with Orange in this way, and in essence empty my Pay-as-you-go account is unbelievable.*That Orange deny any responsibility is very strange, as I pay Orange for my phone service and they pay the companies who run these scams. From the track record below it is doubtful whether Orange are unaware of this type of scam and so, in at least some way, must be considered complicit in this fraud in my opinion.

Of course to actually sort this out means phoning a lot of people, often on terrible phone lines to call centres in Asia, which takes up a lot of time, all of which I am paying Orange for the privilege of doing. However it works out Orange make money, and clearly the scamming companies make a lot of money, and I waste a huge amount of time and energy trying to get my money back that they took off me illegally in the first place.

I have listed the Company below and the cases that stand against them. For Orange and the other networks to continue allowing them on their networks seems ridiculous, and I would love to know how much money Orange receive every time this happens, beyond what it costs me in phone time to sort it out with their staff.

Update : Monday, 10 March 2008

I just phoned PhonePayPlus to report the incident. Details were taken about the text messages and I was given a reference number. I asked who funded PhonePayPlus which seemed to cause some confusion. Eventually I was told they are funded by ‘the industry’. When I asked what that meant I was told it was ‘Ofcom and stuff’! She declined to elaborate further.

I phoned Tanla Mobile Ltd, who took details and explained that they are a front company who sell services to their clients, and they couldn’t tell me which of their customers had sent the text messages, they couldn't let me talk to anyone who knew, and that they would 'investigate'.

Tanla Mobile Ltd
39 Charing Cross Road
London
WC2H 0AR
Tel: 0871 240 3500

customercare@tanlamobile.com

[El Gringo]

I just phoned PhonePayPlus to report the incident. Details were taken about the text messages and I was given a reference number. I asked who funded PhonePayPlus which seemed to cause some confusion. Eventually I was told they are funded by ‘the industry’. When I asked what that meant I was told it was ‘Ofcom and stuff’! She declined to elaborate further.

Originally Posted by irc_Pedro

hi Pedro
PhonePayPlus (aka Icstis) is funded by the premium rate 'industry'
here are some of the lovely people:
http://www.aimelink.org/currentMembers.aspx
Orange, Tanla and many others

PhonePayPlus are funded in two ways:
PP+ collects an annual levy of approx 0.5% of all premium rate revenue generated.
PP+ also use the fines they collect to pay towards funding.

Each year the industry levy is set depending on the amount of industry fines PP+ collected the previous year.
In other words the fines the industry pay this year will be funneled back into the industry next year in the form of a reduced levy.

Where do the fines come from?
The Mobile Operators(Orange eg) and Service Providers(Tanla eg) withhold the premium rate revenue from the "content supplier" for 30 days.
PP+ take the fines(10% of the scam) from this withheld revenue.

[irc_Pedro]

Thanks El Gringo .. was just about to post this one

I did a little more poking about and found out that PhonePayPlus are in fact funded by funds collected by the network operators i.e. Orange, O2 etc. Providers of premium rate services will be charged a 'levy' (2007/08 will be 0.34%.) which network providers collect and hand over to PhonePayPlus.

In other words, Orange take money off me, they pay some to the companies running premium rate services, keep a little back and hand it over to PhonePayPlus.

While PhonePayPlus describe themselves as a "not-for-profit" company that tells us little of how much the directors are paid in reality, just that they make sure they dont run a profit each year.

http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk/pdfs_news/levy_07_08.pdf shows some details of thier accounts and with a Cash At Bank value of £4,274,000 and current assets running at £5,377,000 clearly business isnt too slack.

Am I mad to suggest a conflict of interest here ?

Meanwhile, somewhat cryptically i feel, Tanla came back with :-

Resolution is : USER CALL :: REFUND + STOP For Mr. @ 44XXXXXXXXX - (Please let us know when this has been dealt with)
Ticket number is 27XXX.
Complete details of the request can be looked at http://noc.tanlamobile.net:8080/scp/
Regards,
NOC Team
Tanla Mobile Limited

Except Complete details of the request CANNOT be looked at http://noc.tanlamobile.net:8080/scp/ as I dont have a username and password ... !!!!!!!!!!
And am I supposed to tell them when it's resolved ??

Losing the will to live !

[irc_Pedro]

I forgot to ask ... how much do providers like Orange make off these premium Rate Services ?

[El Gringo]

how much do providers like Orange make off these premium Rate Services ?

Originally Posted by irc_Pedro

this is a suprise

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2007/09/01/2904770.htm
Mobility: Content: A cut above
September 01, 2007

(Total Telecom Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge) Innovation in the premium SMS market is being stifled by mobile operator revenue-sharing models, with smaller content providers and aggregators being hit the hardest. But the growing interest of larger companies such as eBay in using premium SMS to charge for new services could force operators to change their business models. At present, mobile operators can take up to 50% of the revenue generated through premium SMS, but models vary widely. Jeremy Flynn, former head of commercial partnerships at Vodafone and now CEO of mobile video specialist D2see, says UK operators generally keep around 20% of revenue from premium SMS. Mobile transaction specialist mBlox confirms this, adding that while 80% is passed to the hosting content company or aggregator, 95% of this revenue share is then passed to the content provider. This is a similar model to the participation TV revenue share (see diagram). But for smaller content platform developers such as Mobiya, the revenue share model breaks down on average to 50/50. Based on the model of a premium SMS costing 1.50, Orange UK keeps 68 pence including VAT while Virgin Mobile keeps a whopping 98p. These figures relate to SMS volumes of fewer than 5000 per month, notes Martin Davis, CEO of Mobiya. The revenue share will largely depend on the technology that the aggregator provides and the complexity of the service that the aggregator is running for the service provider, says Davis. The more the aggregator does in terms of user support and IT infrastructure then the more revenue the aggregator will keep. Davis says high transaction fees charged by operators for premium SMS services are increasing costs for consumers. Were struggling to make a margin. We look forward to mobile operators reducing their costs, he says, adding that mobile operators in Scandinavia quickstarted the market by reducing their cut in premium SMS services. But Flynn adds that countries such as Italy and Spain are far behind the UK with appalling revenue share models. In future, the increased involvement of larger brands such as e-commerce payment system PayPal and its parent eBay have a greater chance of helping to reduce these rates, forcing network operators to rethink the unbelievable portion of the revenue that they charge, says Ben Wood, director at CCS Insight. Smaller companies cant afford this, which may be a blocking point for the business case, adds Wood. Premium SMS is typically used by businesses that make use of the mobile channel to bill customers. According to mBlox, it works like a standard text message that is wrapped in an invoice, which appears on the consumers monthly mobile phone bill or is deducted from their pre-pay account. A new report from Telephia shows that premium SMS revenues totalled more than $273 million in the first quarter of 2007 in the US alone. Meanwhile consumer spend on premium SMS in the UK totalled 400 million in the financial year 2006/07, according to regulator ICSTIS. Generally, companies like Mobiya are trying to drive innovation in the premium SMS market, while network operators have typically been reluctant to invest. Mobiya hopes to turn the mobile phone into a classified advertising platform. It has brokered a deal with free daily newspaper Metro in Belgium and is launching a trial service in September with Reed Business Information in the UK. Service providers have stood away because they are worried about spamming, [but] they will enable other companies, says Emma Mohr-McClune, principal analyst, wireless services Europe, Current Analysis. Theres a reluctance to blend the SMS model to the advertising model. Nonetheless, mobile operators are increasingly being forced to explore new revenue streams, including advertising. In the case of Mobiya, posting an advertisement costs a maximum of 9 and a minimum of 3 if you dont add location and tag information. Respondents pay 25p to send an SMS to a short code. EBay, for its part, signed a deal with Vodafone at the start of the year to provide the eBay mobile application for free on the Vodafone live! portal, and enables bidders to track auctions using premium SMS. But there is an increasing threat that PayPal, which makes use of premium SMS now, will usurp SMS for mobile payments because of its dominant position in the online payments market. The company has already launched Mobile Checkout, a service that allows consumers in the US, UK and Canada to buy items securely using the mobile Web. Meanwhile start-ups such as D2see are backing premium-rate services such as mobile video using video shortcodes. Premium SMS [growth] is flat; video is the growth marketcontent providers are looking at video as the next genre, says Flynn.

so not sure if the 68p includes the VAT but roughly:
for every £1.50

PP+ =~ 0.5p (0.34%
Government=~ 26p (17.5% VAT
Orange =~ 68p
Tanla+content/information provider =~ 56p

[irc_Pedro]

omg - so Orange get far more than the scamming company which is a client of Tanla, and yet still they say they are not responsible in anyway ... and of course the govt are happy to get it regulated by insiders in the industry if they are making off it too ...

speechless

time to move to Greenland and live in an Igloo

[irc_Pedro]

Ok I love this site .. really its a great source for many things, but as part of the days ranting about getting stung, I put my story on Google Groups at about 3pm. I just Googled "Tanla Mobile Ltd" (10pm) and my rant is no 5 or 6 in the list and "Tanla Mobile Ltd Scam" it comes in top of the list on Google. Now thats fast work and has to sting Tanla somewhat Not sure for how long but it made me smile ...

I recommend to get a point through, post it here, but post it in google groups too, (http://groups.google.com/group/uk.telecom.mobile/topics) as Google seems to crawl them immediately. Just make sure you pack as many keywords in as poss and watch your work get up the list .. now if you get all ur friends to link to it it will get even higher

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.te...8a648d5edbdbd6

[irc_Pedro]

OK so this is getting more interesting by the day. Today I got a call from a woman claiming to be from "SMS Customer Help Desk". She said she had been handed this case by Tanla Mobile Ltd to sort out. She admitted that the premium rate services that I had received were in error, and I had in no way signed up for them.

She offered to send me a cheque for the money that was taken out of my account, saying she would send it to the company "Digital Future" who actually were the ones who charged me, for them to sign, that they would send it back to her and she would send it to me.

She suggested I was lucky it was "Digital Future" as many other companies didnt have a "refund policy", and many people had no recourse at all.

Then later I get an eamil from Orange stating the Company was "Auction Club" on 0844 8845050. Now Tanla have already told me that 81280 is a number that lots of their clients use, and you cannot tell who is behind it just from the number. Which suggests that Orange have no idea who it is, and have no idea who they are letting on to their network to get to their customers.

I feel like Hercules on the Fifth Labour in the Augean Stables. All I can smell is bullshit

[silver]

google likes TS! - is second for

http://www.google.com/search?q=Short...la+Mobile+Ltd+

also google likes links (a lot) so if you post on google groups (or anywhere) ref this thread (or other choosen 'central point') and if possible link using keywords, e.g. Scammed!? Tanla Mobile problems

[mike99]

Am I mad to suggest a conflict of interest here ?

Originally Posted by irc_Pedro

Yes!

What conflict of interests?

Orange take the money from you, keep some themselves, pay some of it to PP+ as a levy, pay some of it to PP+ as fines and pay the remainder to the crooked Service Providers. Remember however that four members of the PP+ board represent (or have represented) crooked service providers. So these PP+ board members win both ways. When the crooked service providers are not fined (or not fined much) the PP+ board members make extra profits. When the crooked service providers are fined, this money is used to pay the salaries of the PP+ board members.

I can't see any conflict of interests at all.

[MauriceS]

New to this forum...having recently been scammed by text I am now v interested. Earlier messages mention Orange, Virgin etc taking a cut of the £1.50 charge. I have talked to Virgin twice now about the scam, and they keep insisting to me that they pass all £1.50 to the service provider.

[El Gringo]

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2007/09/01/2904770.htm
Mobility: Content: A cut above
September 01, 2007
[............]
At present, mobile operators can take up to 50% of the revenue generated through premium SMS, but models vary widely. Jeremy Flynn, former head of commercial partnerships at Vodafone and now CEO of mobile video specialist D2see, says UK operators generally keep around 20% of revenue from premium SMS.
[.................]

.

[mike99]

New to this forum...having recently been scammed by text I am now v interested. Earlier messages mention Orange, Virgin etc taking a cut of the £1.50 charge. I have talked to Virgin twice now about the scam, and they keep insisting to me that they pass all £1.50 to the service provider.

Originally Posted by MauriceS

Hi Maurice

Welcome to The Scream.

Have you seen that there is a lot more on PSR scams here under "general telcos"?

As for Virgin, they are talking rubbish, but I have always found their customer service to be pretty good compared with the likes of O2. If you are persistent and get in touch with someone higher up the "food chain" I think you might get more sense out of them in the end.

Best of luck

Mike

[Malco]

Very interesting articles above. I have just been scammed by Tanla via my service provider Tmobile. After several calls to Tmobile where they insisted I had to pay £36 per month for third party texts I never asked for or subscribed to and that they would not give me back the money they had taken out of my account I reasoned that there were arrestable criminal offences being committed and that the phone companies were part of a fraud as they were taking a payment from what was being scammed and that the chief Executive and directors were libel to arrest if reported to the police. A criminal offence if very different from a civil matter where lawyers can run you around for years. Taking this line it looks like I may have resolved my issues with Tmobile. Others my care to consider reporting the Directors of Tanla Mobile and your respective service providers to the police for fraud (I don’t think this has been done to date). Regards, Malco

[mike99]

Very interesting articles above. I have just been scammed by Tanla via my service provider Tmobile. After several calls to Tmobile where they insisted I had to pay £36 per month for third party texts I never asked for or subscribed to and that they would not give me back the money they had taken out of my account I reasoned that there were arrestable criminal offences being committed and that the phone companies were part of a fraud as they were taking a payment from what was being scammed and that the chief Executive and directors were libel to arrest if reported to the police. A criminal offence if very different from a civil matter where lawyers can run you around for years. Taking this line it looks like I may have resolved my issues with Tmobile. Others my care to consider reporting the Directors of Tanla Mobile and your respective service providers to the police for fraud (I don’t think this has been done to date). Regards, Malco

Originally Posted by Malco

You are correct when you say that these are "arrestable criminal offences". Unfortunately, I believe I am righ in saying, no one is ever arrested for them. I got in touch with the police when this happened to me but was told that they could not take action without a request from PP+. PP+ told me that they had requested police action but that the police refused to take action becaseu they regarded PRS crime as "mis-selling". I have no idea who was telling the truth and who was lying, but one of them was.

[Malco]

I suggest each person just reports the matter to their local police in the form of a letter and insist on a written reply. It is a fraud and it sounds like the police can't be bothered with it. With enough complaints and written replys they may be forced to act. This will up the stakes for the directors of Tania who if convicted can have their assets snatched.

[El Gringo]

You are correct when you say that these are "arrestable criminal offences". Unfortunately, I believe I am righ in saying, no one is ever arrested for them. I got in touch with the police when this happened to me but was told that they could not take action without a request from PP+. PP+ told me that they had requested police action but that the police refused to take action becaseu they regarded PRS crime as "mis-selling". I have no idea who was telling the truth and who was lying, but one of them was.

Originally Posted by mike99

after over four years of 'close' co-operation between Icstis(PhonePayPlus) and the police I think we can safely assume they are both being told to lie.
but who has told them to lie?

http://newsweaver.co.uk/noc/e_articl....cfm?x=b11,0,w
Parliamentary Dinner – 18 October 2005

A dinner hosted by Alun Michael MP, minister of State for Industry & the Regions, and Sir Peter North of ICSTIS. The invitees were a select band and included NOC, City of London Police, Vodafone, BT and others and was declared to operate under ‘Chatham Rules’ hence nothing said at the meeting could be quoted but an open exchange of views was ensured.

It was an encouraging session with widespread support for a healthy, valuable and responsible PRS Industry but managed in a collaborative fashion with a light regulatory hand.

“From an NOC perspective I was greatly encouraged to see us moving in this direction at long last and I am confident that we will see continuing change in the way PRS is regulated to the benefit of us all and including ICSTIS,” said Roy Ellyatt.

the DTI was ''re-branded' Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
http://www.berr.gov.uk/