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  #121  
Old 28-August-2002, 04:09
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Default Thanks......

Thanks to Kitgem and Oslo

Of course I will keep the board posted.

Onslo - I've sent off an e-mail to find out if the interest is still high...
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  #122  
Old 28-August-2002, 11:28
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Been quiet for a while since I got my problems with Tiscali sorted out (well, sort of) - but just want you to know I've been following this with baited breath.

Good luck mate, though as you've said, I'm sure you won't need it.

Carl.
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  #123  
Old 29-August-2002, 22:14
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I believe the legal system will see you win your fight. You have put a great deal of effort into your struggle with these clowns and I can't see how you can possibly fail.
Anyway, my very best wishes for a successful outcome.
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  #124  
Old 31-August-2002, 10:24
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Question A letter at the 11th hour

This morning I have received a letter from Tiscali. Three guesses as to its content. I am off shopping now - and will post answers later. Five brownie points to the person with the nearest guess.



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  #125  
Old 31-August-2002, 10:37
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Out of court settlement?

'Slo
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  #126  
Old 31-August-2002, 10:51
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They can't find any correspondence on your case.
(Only FIVE brownie points!)
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  #127  
Old 31-August-2002, 17:08
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Smile Keep guessing....

Onslo: Stone cold.

Gem: very lukewarm.
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  #128  
Old 31-August-2002, 17:17
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But you said
will post answers later
when?
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  #129  
Old 31-August-2002, 18:53
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Smile the letter...

Ok - here goes, Gem - you talked me in to it

Date "August 2002"

Dear xxx

We have recently tried to collect payment for your Internet access package, as per your latest bill. Unfortunately we were unable to collect this as payment details are incorrect or have changed. You need to change this so that we can bill you for your Internet access.

How to updtate your details

<snip>

When should you do this by?

It is important that you update your details as soon as possible, as from 23 September 2002 we will be suspending your email service and taking steps to recover the money owed to us..... <snip>
Another own goal I think

I seem to be getting the same message again and again - a bit like a stuck record. This one, rather aptly, is signed by someone with the surname Parrott.
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  #130  
Old 31-August-2002, 19:08
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This must have been most distressing Roger.

Maybe consult your GP before the hearing because of your sleepness nights and mental distress.

Sounds like a further claim for compensation

Again best wishes for the hearing - our thoughts are with you.
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  #131  
Old 31-August-2002, 19:52
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I reckon tiscali's billing dept is stuck in a time loop - like on star trek

good luck with your end roger

Sil
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  #132  
Old 31-August-2002, 20:02
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Oh that really is wonderful. Sorry, that's not meant against you, it's just that who in this world could do something like that. Yes, Tiscali. It really is, as you say, an own goal.
Well, this is all boding well for you, every time they put their foot in it you have scored. I'm not in the same league as you (thankfully) but I'm winning to. As sil says, tiscali's billing dept is stuck in a time loop.
Although you don't need it, very good luck . I really do look forward to a happy ending which is bound to come your way.
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  #133  
Old 31-August-2002, 20:34
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Thanks, Sil & Gem

I really do look forward to a happy ending which is bound to come your way
Ending? I'm only just beginning
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  #134  
Old 01-September-2002, 08:53
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Oh, well the beginning of the end then!
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  #135  
Old 01-September-2002, 09:16
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That letter from Tiscali has landed at a most fortuitous time for you, Roger.

Quite apart from aiding your court case now, I would hope it constitutes a legal nasty for Tiscali re the earlier finding for you. Something like contempt of court - I'm sure there are lots of legal eagles who can advise you. I wonder if any of their directors can be locked up for it?

Anyway, good luck! I've followed this saga from the beginning of the thread, I'm just thankful I don't seem to have had any of your difficulties in leaving this dreadful company - who, so I read, have lost half a million subscribers in the last quarter. and moved back from profit to loss.

Mike
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  #136  
Old 01-September-2002, 23:50
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Quite apart from aiding your court case now, I would hope it constitutes a legal nasty for Tiscali re the earlier finding for you. Something like contempt of court - I'm sure there are lots of legal eagles who can advise you. I wonder if any of their directors can be locked up for it?
It certainly breaches their own confirmation that harassment is at an end. Unfortunately I don't think its contempt of court because I have not applied for any interim judgement.

It won't do them any good though in the stakes of exemplary damages I think ;-)
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  #137  
Old 02-September-2002, 07:51
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Wonder who will bet with me that tomorrow Tiscali will try to find a reason to adjourn the case?
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  #138  
Old 02-September-2002, 08:55
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I'm not expecting them to turn up. That won't stop me though. They had adequate notice.
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  #139  
Old 02-September-2002, 09:07
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Best be prepared though with the case against adjournment should they turn up.

Maybe "public interest" and that other people including yourself are suffering distress and harassment that must be ended immediately - possible criminal aspects too.
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  #140  
Old 02-September-2002, 11:59
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Default Its ON

Apparently they've sent in paperwork and the like...

I have now booked my board and lodging for tonight.
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  #141  
Old 03-September-2002, 09:11
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Just surfed in after a long absence - I use Tiscali where I am at present in France but it's nothing like the UK end fortunately. I'm amazed to see that this sort of thing is still going on, I wonder what Jeremy Stokes, Derick Martin, Doc Watson et al would have to say...

Anyway it seem that I returned on an auspicious day. Hope it goes well for you Roger, I'll be thinking of you.
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  #142  
Old 03-September-2002, 09:21
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Welcome back Bill.......

Guess Roger is incommunicado right now..... hope we have some good news later in the day and can celebrate in the traditional T/S way.
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  #143  
Old 03-September-2002, 21:15
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Thumbs down Sorry - only just got home...

The other side never showed. I have a word for word transcript of the 2 1/2 minutes I was allowed and will copy it down later.

Briefly, according to the judge, the modern world expects this sort of thing, best to ignore it and only defend and counterclaim if they bring it to court. He would not have awarded me the most part of wehat Tiscali hasd already paid - and he would not take any notice of the later correspondence or the fact that I had evidence of a myriad of other people with a similar problem.

Philosophical - but this is IMO a persuasion against common sense.
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  #144  
Old 03-September-2002, 21:33
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I don't know what to say RTI, I'm lost for words! We seem to have lost common sense. Big brother rules.

Wellcome back Bill. Just had (another) look at your site and can quite understand why you 'upped and went'.
I think Jeremy Stokes would have taken it in his stride, don't know about Derick Martin and Doc Watson (I wonder what happened to them?).
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  #145  
Old 03-September-2002, 22:21
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Appalled, disgusted -

the modern world expects this sort of thing, best to ignore it
We do not expect harassment and we expect the law to be complied with concerning debt collection. Does that mean we are living to the standards of a bygone age?

Well done Roger for having the courage of your convictions - sad about the result though.

Wonder what the European Court of Human Rights would make of this?
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  #146  
Old 04-September-2002, 00:47
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Been following your case with interest Roger..............What a sad day........... Other words fail me at the moment.
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  #147  
Old 04-September-2002, 02:14
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Post A transcript

The following is a transcript that I wrote in the car within 20 minutes of coming out of the hearing room - while it weas fresh in my mind. There was a tape running though - I could see the flashing LEDs in time to my voice


"Good morning, Your Honour. I believe my opposition isn't going to turn up"

"Good morning, Mr Pittock. I am not too surprised."
<30 second pause while the Judge reads the "hearing" form>

"I am appalled, Mr Pittock, by the sheer volume of paperwork this has generated." [fans paper in box file twice, as if counting the leaves]. "You've been paid, haven't you"?

"I have been sent a cheque, but I did not cash it because of correspondence received shortly after it was sent."

"More correspondence?! This has taken you a lot of time, them a lot of time and me a lot of time already thanks to the degree of correspondence. How much is it for. A hundred and ten pounds isn't it?"

"A hundred and ten pounds 50. But, as I said I didn't cash it because of the letter that I got soom after. What's more, I got this one [takes out the latest letter with highlight over the "we will take steps..." bit and turns it toward the judge] just Saturday last. This shows conti..."

"I want to cut through this, Mr Pittock. You have been paid 110. Had this been put in front of me without that money on the table I would not have awarded you that sum. You have claimed for legal costs, for which you are not entitled."

"Really? I didn't think I had"

"That was the total of your claim wasn't it?"

"That was the total I had quantified. I left a further section as unspecified at your discretion on account of the continued harassment and the fact that at least two of my friends whose case studies I have here [gesticulates to a further two sections in lever-arch file (Bea and Kitgem)] are - or have been - undergoing near identical harassment".

"What do you do for a living, Mr Pittock?"

"I am an electronic engineer, presently managing 50 people. I also am an active member of the Consumer Association. I have nothing to do with the bar. The other element of my claim is a request that you place an order on Tiscali not to send me threatening correspondence."

"Well I'm not going to do that, Mr Pittock. This one should never have come to the court. Letters like that are part of modern life. If you get letters like that that are unjust, just ignore them. Tear them up. If they persist and take you to court, defend and counterclaim, but do not bring an action for empty threats. Get real, Mr Pittock, this is the modern way. You have been paid 110. Cash it in and move on. Good Morning."

"But wh..."

"GOOD MORNING"

"Good Morning, your honour" [Left the room]
My analysis of a few points of order:
This has taken you a lot of time, them a lot of time and me a lot of time already thanks to the degree of correspondence.
[[my time]] So what? The amount is irrelevant, the principles are very important, I would willingly spend the time again - and willingly do so unpaid (this time and next) to stem the flow of wrongs coming out of that drivel machine bringing less resilient innocent people to their knees.

[[their time]] b***ocks. They have spent next to no time of their own devoted to me - its all come out of the computer and the very fact they haven't looked at what it was before signing it off is why we are where we are.

[["my time"]] That's what the court fee is for. I paid it and surely to goodness am entitled to ask him to read through the file proplerly just once.
You have been paid 110. Had this been put in front of me without that money on the table I would not have awarded you that sum. You have claimed for legal costs, for which you are not entitled
I didn't actually, I claimed 2 per hour for my time spent on correspondence *before* the claim, not claim preparation time - just shows how well he read up on things.
What do you do for a living, Mr Pittock?
What difference does that make for goodness sake? I don't think it was small talk.
[gesticulates to a further two sections in lever-arch file (Bea and Kitgem)]
I was never allowed any time in the short while I had to expand on these. He totally missed the main reason I was there. He really thought my primary purpose was to screw a few more bob out of them.
Letters like that are part of modern life
Yes - and they shouldn't be. These debt collectors have brought innocent people to tears. Not me but I know that others here have suffered substantial worry and stress thanks to these machinations.
. If you get letters like that that are unjust, just ignore them. Tear them up. If they persist and take you tro court, defend and counterclaim, but do not bring an action for empty threats.
If it was only me - individual contract etc and I was the only one affected that's exactly what I would do - and have done. But it's not.

I have to agree with him on one thing though. Life is too short for me to let this get me down - it IS time for me to let it go. I have done my bit, but sadly it has petered out, thanks to either a <struggling for the right word and settling on> misguided judge or "moderrn living".

Good evening all.

<edit - spelling corrections and to include the introduction I forgot to transcribe in the car>

Last edited by RTI; 04-September-2002 at 02:25.
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  #148  
Old 04-September-2002, 08:58
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I think you are right about not letting it get you down. Lesser people would have not bothered at all, at least you followed your principles.

It shows how out of touch judges really are but perhaps brings home the point that Tiscali is merely grossly incompetent rather than malicious. Though of course that gross incompetence has had exactly the same effect on some people as deliberate intimidation tactics might have done, but I imagine Tiscali is corporately too dim to realise that.

Perhaps it's time for public shaming. The BBC Watchdog episode managed to turn things around under Localtel/WOL before Tiscali took over and went several steps backwards.
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  #149  
Old 04-September-2002, 09:03
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Default Public shaming

I will support anything anyone else leads, Bill. I have personally fought shy of Watchdog in the past, having seen one or two of their topics from both the inside and outside, where they never let the truth get in the way of dramatisation and two wrongs not making a right. But.....
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  #150  
Old 04-September-2002, 12:16
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I know exactly what you mean Roger. I was very much in two minds about taking part in the Watchdog thing, being no fan of that style of consumerism. But although the resulting programme was pretty rubbishy it did at least open up better relationships and set a dialogue going between Localtel and its customers, and for those who may not have been around then, The Scream was pleased to play a leading role.

It's a great pity that Tiscali put things back to the beginning - or even further back. At least we were dealing then with a small company that got out of its depth, now it's international corporate empires involved. But then, the bigger the PR disaster that can be arranged, the potentially greater effect on its subject.

I'm sure there are better, more balanced, programmes or press features that might be interested. I don't think the current victims should let it rest.
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