Tiscali's debt collectors are going to take me to court

But I am going to win with defence and counter claim

I left Tiscali when they stopped doing the phones. They charged me for internet calls but I was on unlimited tarif.

They charged me for administering the account for no valid reason.

I paid all I owe - they want more.

I will see them in court - and get my pound of flesh.

RTI

ps - Sil/Tebs - remember me? I'm back with a vengeance...

Hey Roger!!!

Of course I remember you ,, still have you on my icq list ,, havn't turned it on for a while tho,, back in the UK for two months now

I hope you teach Tiscalli a good lesson,, WOOO!! Go Roger!!!!

you need to message me when you are about and I will turn on ICQ


tebs

Hope all works out well for you Roger.

Strange they seem to have selected you as a "victim".... you seem to have a very strong counter claim.

Good luck and trusting justice and commonsense will prevail!

Good 2 see you roger

A few other ppl have been harassed by tiscali an their debt collectors and as far as I can recall tiscali backed down in every case

More details in the freedom24 and tiscali forums.

Good luck

Sil

Thanks for your good wishes folks.

If tyhey do issue a court summons - and it surely looks like they will - I won't let them back down. I will put in a counter claim

When I get to it they really won't know what's hit them. I shall expect exemplary damages..

Roger

Last night I received the following by e-mail from Tiscali - weird!

{quote}
We are concerned that we have not received any payments from you for your
internet account.

This outstanding balance must be cleared within the next 10 working days.
Failure to comply with this request will result in your internet
subscription account being suspended until the account is settled.

You can pay off any outstanding balance by forwarding a cheque made payable
to Tiscali UK Ltd for the total amount to reach us within the next 5 working
days to:

Payments Centre
Tiscali UK Ltd
PO Box 254
Hull

HU2 8YA


Please remember to write your account number on the back of the cheque.
Failure to do so may delay the payment being credited to your account.

Please note, by suspending your account this will prevent you from accessing
the internet through your current access package. You will still be able to
use your e-mail address but you must connect to the internet with a
different access number. Tiscali's pay as you go access number is 0845 661
4681.

Should you wish to contact Tiscali regarding this letter or to arrange
future payment collections promptly, please call our Payments Centre on 0870
741 7000* and update your direct debit or credit card details. Once your
outstanding balance has been cleared and we have updated payment details we
can lift the suspension on your internet access package.

Yours sincerely

XYZ
{unquote}


I replied:


Dear XYZ:

The referred account - telephone, internet and e-mail - has been closed for
some time now, so I am struggling to understand the title of this e-mail and
the somewhat empty threat of suspension of a closed account.

VERY briefly: Following unjust charges for internet useage (the account was
on an unlimited tariff), administration charges applied due to you
arbitrarily not collecting from the valid and solvent CAT, despite a myriad
of reasoned correspondence and me sending cheques your way to cover the
interim (that you inexplicably returned), your colleagues have placed this
account in the hands of debt collectors. They in turn have instructed
solicitors. When the court summons comes in I will counterclaim for
expenses of copying correspondence that you should have in one place (but it
must be scattered or you wouldn't have written to me in this vein), for
having to attend court and for the time taken to prepare the defence and
counterclaim.

The last bill to which you refer I agreed with fully and was pleased to
include its value in my final settlement to the debt collector. I sent it
to the debt collector as that was explicitly requested both by your company
and the debt collector. That was some time ago. Has the debt collector not
paid you your dues? I should set a debt collector on them, you seem to be
good at that. Or would you like me to write to them and ask why they
haven't paid you and threaten them with court action for you? My charges
are very reasonable.

Its a shame there is so little communication between the many arms in your
organisation and your own agents. In this instance you have tied yourself
into such a knot I think even Houdini might struggle to extricate you. What
a way to end what was for the most part a very successful contractual
relationship.

Looking forward to seeing several Tiscali representatives in court - all of
whom no doubt will have different versions of the debacle.

Sincerely

Today I sent a "s**t or get off the pot" letter to the debt collector's solicitor today. If I get no reply I'll take THEM to court for timewasting.

Today I get....

For the Attention of: Mr Pittock Username XXXXXX


It has been noted that the credit card details, used to take payment against
your Tiscali internet account, have expired.

Please update your payment details immediately. Failure to do so could
result in suspension of your internet service.

In order to view and amend your details, please click on the web site
address (url) below, or key the address into your web browser address
toolbar:

<http://www.tiscali.co.uk/members/mya...e/payment.html>
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/members/mya...e/payment.html

Please use your account number and the billing password you selected upon
registration to access your individual details.

If you need any further assistance you can contact our Billing Customer
Services Centre on 0870 7417000 or by emailing -



Thank you for your continued custom

Best Regards

Tiscali Credit Control

I'm taking all parties (WOL/Tiscali, plus debt collector and solicitor) to court for harrassment.

If anyone is interested I'll post the letter on here.

Good luck with that Roger,, hopefully they will get what they deserve soon

In the meantime,, hope you and yours have a Merry Christmas

tebs

When you win please tell me if Tiscali ask for several thousand other cases to be taken into account. I escaped many months ago but I still have their bills - just in case.

Thanks Tebs & Huw. The letters were sent out recorded delivery to all three parties on Xmas Eve

A day late admittedly but - merry xmas to all followers.

A deserved kick in the pants when they open their mail after the Crhistmas holidays. Keep at it Roger but don't let the battle spoil your New Year.

Thanks for your support, Vic - and I promise it won't spoil my holiday. I actually enjoyed composing the missive.

I'll keep everyone informed.

Hi RTI, they have done the same to me, good luck, see below:-

Hi, My account finished with World Online in January 2001 as they did everything wrong, invoices, direct debit problems, finally they disconnected my line without warning etc.
First I received a letter from Lewis Debt Services in April 2001 (based in Glasgow). I rang them up and couldn't understand a word that they were saying! I then wrote back and gave them all the information as I didn't owe anything.
Now its Direct Legal and Collections turn (received letter recently). Managed to find their Web page (www.dlcollect.co.uk) see below as World Online have written a testimonial to their debt collecting strategy, no mention of how bad World Online's customer service/accounts section performance or rather lack of performance and their treatment of their customers. Anyway it looks like its back to the `fight' again!!!! kitgem.




World Online UK Ltd

“We started using Direct Legal & Collections in October 2000. Since then we have seen a significant impact in our bottom line figures. We have found their collection strategy as pro-active, professional and thorough. With over 7 million customers throughout Europe, we rely heavily on our IT infrastructure, with which DLC has worked together with us to provide a seamless transfer between our systems and theirs. This has speeded up the collection process, and has in addition contributed towards the reduction of both the direct and indirect costs of chasing our debt book.”

Gareth Wyre.

UK Credit Manager

World Online UK Ltd- A Tiscali Company

Hi: Funny about WO's testimonial: a few months' back it was becoming cler that WO's local Trading Standards were concerned about this agency's methods and advised people not to pay if they were in dispute about the amount (as I was). I eventually threatened the collector's with a counter-claim if they contacted me again or tried to affect my credit rating. They haven't contacted me again. I'd paid what I knew to be full and final settlement to WO (who'd never credited me with agreed compensation from summer '99 - which I subtracted when I closed my account in April).

Good luck!

Thanks for that, Kitgem and frmarcus - its nice to know I'm not alone.

It sounds like frmarcus's situation is presently at a stalemate with neither side having commited to not taking the other to court. Did your "situation" just peter out in that way too, Kitgem, has it been formally closed or is there still a possibility you and they may also meet in the legal ring? For my part, a battle in the court is now almost a certainty. If I don't get apologies I will issue the summons on Jan 25th.

Here is what I sent - recorded dly:

22 December 2001

DLC W-O-L A/C No: xxx Your ref: yyy
Buckingham Road
Brackley
Northants NN13 7DN For attention of P Shah, Collections Executive

APLINS Your ref: zzz
APLIN STOCK FAIRFAX
36 West Bar
Banbury
Oxfordshire OK16 9RU

Tiscali A/C No: xxx Your ref: yyy.xxx
World-On-Line UK Ltd
Finance Department
Freepost SCE7615
Godalming
Surrey
GU7 1BR For attention of Russell Taylor

RECORDED DELIVERY

Dear P Shah of DLC, Dear Sirs of Aplins, Dear Mr Taylor of Tiscali

Following numerous e-mails, threatening letters and in particular a stated intention from a solicitor that court proceedings would be enacted in pursuance of a nonexistent debt, I wish to advise that I have heard nothing official from the courts.

Please find enclosed a very brief synopsis of the situation necessitating me to write to all three of you. The situation has cost me to date approximately 15 hours in correspondence preparation. I have had to dispatch some 19 letters in total, some of which have been copied to more than one party. Taking the stationery at cost and time spent at a modest £2 per hour, the total cost to date over this debacle to the customer is approximately £50.

I do not wish this matter to continue any longer than necessary. Accordingly, in order to bring matters to a head, unless I hear from all three parties - or a spokesperson on behalf of all three parties - that this matter is closed, I myself shall be initiating court procedings against all three parties jointly and severally for costs resulting from harassment. Should I not have your respective written confirmations of withdrawal by 24th January 2002, court proceedings shall be instigated without further communication to yourselves.

Yours sincerely



RTI

Encl
________________________________________

A BRIEF SYNOPSIS OF THE WORLD ON LINE ACCOUNT REFERENCE xxx

* In or around June 2001, the customer’s World On Line (hereinafter WOL) account suffered notional arrears on account of WOL’s system wrongly logging an arbitrary credit card expiry date as a terminator of an open ended agreement.

* Entirely coincidental to this, WOL stated intention to discontinue being a telecom supplier and the customer moved to close the account.

* Approximately one month beforehand, and unbeknown to the customer, WOL had also arbitrarily placed the account on a restricted hours internet tariff despite the customer having requested at all times an unrestricted hours tariff. When that was discovered the account tariff was altered to unlimited.

* Although the dues were paid in a punctilious manner by cheque, following the “expired” credit card agreement, auxiliary penalties were imposed by WOL, including internet call charges and administration charges.

* The customer twice attempted to pay what he believed was the full outstanding agreed amount, first as full and final settlement and secondly as on account. On both occasions WOL returned the cheque.

* In or around August 2001, WOL referred the matter to debt collectors (DLC). A further exchange of correspondence outlined that WOL wished the customer to deal with DLC exclusively.

* In September 2001, WOL sent a further routine bill detailing the remaining call charges following account closure. The customer agreed fully with this account and added the net figure to the amount with which he concurred of the claim.

* On 6th October 2001 the customer sent a cheque to DLC for the aggregate agreed net debt - including the final call charges submitted in September. This was cashed.

* DLC continued to press for the remainder of the perceived debt, including referal to Aplins and the confirmation that a court claim would be placed on 18th October 2001 “If you do not make payment or reach an agreement with DIRECT LEGAL AND COLLECTIONS within 72 hours a Court Claim will be issued.”

* Despite the clear breakdown of what the customer has payed, WOL continues to e-mail the customer threatening to close the (already closed) account, the latest exchange being in December 2001.

Only key points are included in this synopsis, which to date has involved some nineteen outgoing letters and receipt of a similar number of aggregate missives from WOL, DLC and Aplins.



RTI, 22 December 2001

DLC phoned, saying they're referring it back to WOL. I told them they were all on the hook together and it was too late for that.

I'm starting to enjoy this.

Hi RTI, unfortunately DLC are harrassing via telephone, keep ringing up etc (see my thread `Phone Harrassment from DLC ').
Requested that I receive a letter from WOL stating that they have allocated/assigned this so called outstanding amount to DLC. This hasn't been forthcoming. Also informed them that I am charging them for letters, email etc at £5 per time. They currently owe me £5 for returning a call to them yesterday (stated this at the start of the call) my time is precious etc. Have previously e.mailed them stating this as well as my £5 admin costs. They are not listening, similar to WOL who had bad/non existent communication skills. May counter sue for harrassment. Good luck with case. Kitgem

Well done, Kitgem. Thanks for your support - and I assure you all the outcome will be detailed here. Win or lose. It is unlikely that I will hear from all three parties in the interim, but that is the only thing to prevent me from setting legal wheels in motion havimg come this far.

Glad I got shot of this Company many months ago.

Sorry to still be reading threads like this and hope one of you is successful in the end in publicising the distress that has been, and is still being, caused to Tiscali/WOL customers.

Good luck.

A letter from World On Line.

Is it a confirmation of withdrawal of the threats?.. No.

Is it a confirmation they are looking into things? ... No.

Is it even an acknowledgement of my threat/concerns? .. No.

It's ... a Warning of Termination of Your Internet Access



Dear Mr Pittock

We have recently sent you two e-mails to notify you about the outstanding balance for your Internet account. As yet we have still not received any payments from you for the account as shown.

In order to be able to continue to be able to access the Internet with Tiscali, you must pay the outstanding balance by no later than Tuesday 22nd January 2002.

If we do not receive full payment from you by this date, your Internet subscription account will be suspended until the account is settled.

You can pay off the outstanding balance by forwarding a cheque made payable to Tiscali UK Ltd for the total amount:



Please remember to write your account number on the back of the cheque. Failure to do so may delay the payment being credited to your account.

Please note, by suspending your account this will prevent you from accessing the Internetthrough your current access package. You will still be able to use your e-mail address but you must connect to the Internet with a different access number. Tiscali's pay as you go access number is 0845 6614681.

Should you wish to contact Tiscali regarding this letter or to arrange future payment collections promptly, please call our Payments Centre on 0870 741 7000* and update your direct debit or credit card details we can lift the suspension on your Internet access package.

We reserve our right to issue legal procedings against you if we do not receive the outstanding balance by the date stated in this letter.

Yours sincerely

electronic signature

Chris Sutton

Tiscali Customer Services
*Calls are charged at National Rate




Absolutely unbelievable. Never before in 45 years have I come across such incompetence in an organisation that perpetuates for so long.

Later today I shall be applying to the courts.

If it wasn't such a hassle it'd be funny (kinda),, good luck with sorting it out,, tiscali seem incapable of doing it on their own!

Sil

Thanks, Sil.

I'm just swotting up on things - to see if the small claims court are able to issue injunctions to prevent hassle or if I have to go "all the way". Anyone know?

What fun. I have today got my letter from Aplin Stockton Fairfax, solicitors saying that if I do not either pay or make an agreement with DLC within 72 hours a Court Claim will be issued. Needless to say I will be doing neither. Should I bother to email those really nice people at World Online, to whom I owe nothing and still use and pay for their services, or just wait to see what happens?

Bryan

This - or something very similar - goes off to all three plus the courts, on the correct stationery, early next week. Any observations in the next day or so gragtefully received:


Claimant:

[B}RTI
RTI's address[/B]


Defendant(s):

Defendant 1:___________Defendant 2:___________Defendant 3:

DLC Debt collectors______APLINS solicitors________Tiscali / World-On-Line (UK)
Buckingham Road_______APLIN STOCK FAIRFAX____The Old Post House
Brackley______________36 West Bar____________128 - 130 High Street
Northants NN13 7DN____Banbury________________Godalming
____________________Oxfordshire OK16 9RU_____Surrey GU7 1AB

Brief details of claim

The Claimant used to have an account for Defendant 3 to supply telephone services and internet access. The Claimant is being pursued for debts to The Account. However, the Claimant maintains that the account is not in arrears. The particulars of claim and referred documents corroborate the Claimant's contentions that The Account is cleared of debt and was so cleared at the earliest opportunity, frustrated by Defendant 3 twice returning the tendered payment. Some while into the dispute Defendant 3 referred the matter to Defendant 1, who in turn involved Defendant 2. Despite Defendant 3's written request that the Claimant deal solely with Defendant 2, Defendant 3 continues to approach the Claimant with largely irrelevant correspondence reserving the right for legal action. The Claimant contends this barrage constitutes harrassment. The Claimant claims the cost of correspondence preparation, stationery and postage disbursements. The claimant also requests that the court vindicate the account has a zero balance and place an order on all defendants to not harrass the Claimant further over this matter.


VALUE

Correspondence preparation at £2.00 per hour: _______£45.00
Stationery/printing cost __________________________£15.00
Postage/Recorded Delivery charges: ________________£ 8.50
The Court Fee _________________________ ________£27.00
Damages for harrassment (not quantified by the Claimant)

Additionally, the Claimant requests that an Order be placed on the Defendants not to harrass the Claimant further.
The Claimant is aware from information on the Internet that several other clients of Defendant 3 are being similarly harrassed and respectfully suggests that any award for damages of harrassment be exemplary.

Excellent. Will it be open court? Can we come and watch?

Ann

If I think I can get away with it I'll have a mini digital recorder somewhere in my pocket...

Unfortunatley, Ann, as I recall - unless the rules have changed, small claims courts are behind closed doors. Rest assured though I shall without question be publicising results and what might be construed as persuasions and precedents.

I am now also for the 10th or 11th time being threatened by court action. I would like to know what happened to your claim RTI, if that's okay - also see post on dlc phone harrassment - I strongly suggest we all complain also to watchdog, who will only take it up if there are sufficient numbers - and the Guardian consumer help page. I have also reported them to OFTEL who is at present looking into it.
I am very interested to see all the stuff about the counter claim RTI - excellent - I would like to know if there is any way we could all file a joint class action as this is extremely time consuming and has cost me already a lot of money in registered letters. Unfortunately I was stupid at the beginning, and when i did not hear from them for 4 months, i threw out most of my correspondence. Despite that I am still left with more than 20 letters from dlc, some of them very threatening and a few from tiscali, each claiming I owe them a different amount - the smallest being £51, the largest more than £200.
any advice on how to deal with all of this without completely ruining my sleep pattern please let me know. I am also more than happy to be a witness to anybody who might need one - and i might need the same in the future. In the meantime, still wondering if it would be possible to take out a class action???

I have no idea about class action.

I have only today got around to doing all the photocopying so have not yet shot my bolt. I was going to send it all off tomorrow morning. However, I am happy to leave matters in abeyance for a couple of days if there is a solicitor reading this that feels a joint venture is appropriate.

Meanwhile, assuming solicitors are few and far between, I would be very pleased to receive afedavits - or however you spell it - from fellow aggrieved individuals. These could be placed in here - or if you prefer by e-mail () (remove NOASPAM).

Since the small claims court is only semi-formal I'm guessing that e-mail submissions printed by me would do to enhance the case - though again I'm happy to be guided by anyone reading this that knows better.

Roger