BT Standard tariff to be abolished

[DaveL]

BT is set to abolish the BT Standard tariff on 1 July this year and move all people on it to BT Together option 1. See this article on BBC News. This is IMHO a tariff BT don't want you to know about. Go to BT.com and click on 'At Home' and it's all BT Together this and BT Together that.

So what is BT Standard?
Line rental on BT Standard costs £9.50 per month (when paid by DD - else it's £10.50). For that you get £2.15 worth of call time per month which can be used on local, national and 0845 numbers. Call charges are as follows:

• Local -- daytime 3.95p, evening 1.00p, weekend 1.00p
• National -- daytime 7.91p, evening 3.95p, weekend 1.50p
• All calls are subject to a minimum charge of 5p.

How does this compare to BT Together option 1?
At present this costs £11.50 per month, to be reduced to £10.50 on 1 July (both prices are for paying by DD). There is NO call allowance in with this, and call prices are as follows (Local and national calls are the same rate on BT Together):

• Daytime 3p/min (with 5p minimum)
• Evening and weekend 6p for up to an hour (to be reduced to 5.5p)
• Calls to mobiles are slightly cheaper than on Standard

So what does this change mean?
At present the call allowance effectively means that the line rental is £7.35 on Standard (if you subtract the call allowance from it). What I actually pay per month on my second line is just short of £9.50 and that includes some calls! How do I work that one out? The line is used to use up inclusive call allowance, which contributes to the Friends and Family discount. Although this is only small, it never the less means I pay less than the full line rental price, as the FF discount comes off the bill as a whole.

To move to BT Together will mean an extra £1 on my bill, and that's with no calls! Any short calls that are made in the evening will now cost 5.5p instead of 5p. This will greatly increase the telephone bill for the whole house, as the main line is also on BT Standard. Also, I would say that the vast majority of calls are under 5 minutes, so that extra 0.5p per call will really add up.

BT are crafty!
What they are claiming is true! Most people are on BT Together because IMHO they don't know they can choose Standard. The other thing is that when BT Together first came out it had inclusive call time and (on its lowest option) all calls were charged, making it worthwile for me. It was effectively like a step up from Standard where line rental is slightly higher in return for cheaper calls. The call time was quietly abolished from BT Together last year, completely changing what BT put in the Together tin! BT claimed that this removal of call allowance would simplify things and that customers prefer not to have it as it complicates matters! Now they reduce BT Together by £1 claiming that prices are coming down! And, the Brucey Bonus for them is that they get rid of the tariff that their competitors use for comparision!!! So the irony is that because of competition my bill is now set to go up!

I have said before, I do not believe in privatisation and competition in essential public services as you cannot have what is true competition. You also get daft things like this happening as well. I would like to pay line rental (in the true sense of the word) and I am also happy to pay for calls per minute as they have always been.

[thefirs]

Have a look at http://www.itplc.com/products/itplus.asp which gives you more or less what you ask for, line rental plus calls as made. At only £6.75 per month the rental is cheap, but the site buries in the small print that you have to sign up for minimum 12 months. Note also that there is a BT Admin Fee of £24.99 per line for all Residential Transfers and £39.99 for Businesses.

Off-peak local call charges are more than BT and the mobile costs look pricey too (unhelpfully it quotes call rates ex-vat), and most of its rates can be beaten by secondary call providers like 18866.com. It is alleged on another site that you don't get the option to route your calls via an alternative supplier, though I have not verified this. You could probably get round this via the two or three providers who still provide an 0800 access number in addition to a four-digit access code.

I make most of my calls from our vast range of mobiles that include oodles of free inclusive minutes, so this will not be a problem if/when the time comes to ditch BT, again. The last time I did this was when I went over to Localtel/WOL/Ticali and we all know what happened there. It did however spawn this site, so we shouldn't speak too grudgingly of it.

I believe that TalkTalk are about to announce a new initiative in line rental and "free" local calls , so other providers may emerge before July who will undercut BT.

[T1nker3ell]

I still say sign up for TalkTalk. With their current offer, I have just got friends and family to sign up and I call them for free. I can just pay BT for their lowest line rental too.

Without the hassle of having to have to pay for "additional extras" that dont really benefit me.

As for one.tel being cheaper, I did some investigating, and basically what they dont mention is that you only really benefit if your bills are less than £2.50 a month. They include silly small print like connection charges which is basically them charging you for their so called discounts at the start of the call.

They also dont include anything like a calling circle, so they are getting your money back on the numbers that you call the most, whereas with TalkTalk they give you even further discounts.

Lets all sign up to TalkTalk and call each other free.

As Ive said before, Im always out to save money, and having the internet at work gives me the option of having the opportunity to check out all the competition, so if anyone has any recommendations let me know and Ill check them out.

But one.tel including the callsaver they do with phones4u, tele2, BT and a quite a few others are yet to beat TalkTalk.

[squidgy]

BT sure are crafty if this is what's going on. To me, it's a price hike in disguise. Why can't they come out and say it straight? "Sorry folks, but we're having to up the line rental by one quid a month. We know that the only time you're likely to change between us and the cable guys is when you move into a house that's never had a phone line before - but we'd still far rather you put a BT line in rather than a Telewest or NTL line. For those who don't plan to move house any time soon, we're banking on your inertia. Thanks."

[T1nker3ell]

Ive often wondered about cable, but I read an article once where it said they were never going to be truly competitive because they were still paying off the huge amount of debt they incurred by digging up the roads and laying all the cables.

By the looks of the price charges on the telewest website, I may take them up for internet, but I wouldnt go near them for my phone line.

Are all cable companies that expensive?

[squidgy]

By the looks of the price charges on the telewest website, I may take them up for internet, but I wouldnt go near them for my phone line.

Heh - I just checked exactly that too.

At the moment, I'm on BT Standard Tariff, I have evening and weekend calls from Tiscali (planning to change to Equitalk because customer service is better) and wires only ADSL 512kbps from V21. In total, that's £34.48 per month. When BT abolishes the Standard Tariff, it'll be £35.48 per month.

But the cheapest you can get a phone line with evening and weekend free calls and 512kbps broadband from Telewest is £42.50 per month - and that's without the digital TV. Even if I dropped down to 256kbps broadband, it'll still be £35.49 per month - that's 1p more expensive than BT!

I guess this means BT have done their homework?

[T1nker3ell]

you sound like you know your stuff!!

So does getting all three together work out ultimately cheaper? or would you benefit by getting all three seperate?

[thefirs]

What no-one's calculated here is that not only are BT putting up rental by £1, but that by removing their £2.15 call allowance the underlying base rental is going to increase by 43%. Will everyone complain to Ofcom please?

The availability of fixed-price off-peak calls is a red herring as better deals are available from TalkTalk anyway.

I can only hope that better rental-only offers emerge, as ITPlus seems hedged around with ifs, buts, and by-the-ways.

[T1nker3ell]

By the looks of things, the big change will happen in september when people can start offering discounted line rental too. They will probably just get this wholesale from BT, so it will still be BT setting the price at some point. Not sure whether many other companies will be that quick on the uptake to offer it though, particularly since with carrier pre select they can leave all that hassle with BT. Especially what with the losses that the cable companies made.

BT are never going to be competitive because they are basically being strangled now they have become privatised and if they make a discount even by as much as a pound per month, they are losing about 50 million pounds per month. Thats why they kind of gave with the one hand and took away with the other.

[DaveL]

Originally posted by thefirs
What no-one's calculated here is that not only are BT putting up rental by £1, but that by removing their £2.15 call allowance the underlying base rental is going to increase by 43%. Will everyone complain to Ofcom please?

I hadn't thought about the 43% bit, it's a good way of looking at it. Whenever I have looked at which tariff to be on, I always subtract the inclusive call time from the line rental giving me £7.35 as my assumption is that I will spend that amount regardless.

Now, for those of you who have BT Standard and make ALL your calls with someone else, I would like to point out that in your rush to believe the other company's publicity material, you have forgotten that you are wasting £2.15 per month by NOT making [qualifying] calls with BT!

With BT Together it is now cheaper to make a quick call in the day time than in the evening or weekend. Daytime calls are 3p/min, so anything upto 1min 40s will cost 5p. The same call in the evening will (after 1 July) cost 5.5p. The point is that at present the minimum call charge is 5p, which for evening and weekend calls will go up by 0.5p (for calls less than 5min 30s), making it more expensive for lots of short calls.

I have emailed BT so they can confirm my thoughts. If I do not get a reply and/or it turns out to be true, I will be writing to them to inform them of this. If I do not get any joy with them, I will contact Ofcom and point out these facts.

I will also be pointing out that I have 2 lines, so this increase of (what is in effect) £3.15, will be doubled! So that's £75.60 per anum on our household phone bill!!! (This doesn't include all those 0.5ps BT will collect.)

[RANT]Does this not prove that this madness of privatisation doesn't work? The reason BT are scrapping it is (probably) because people don't realise about the calltime, because it is BT who has chosen not to publicise it a lot. Go to BT.com and click 'At home', what do you see? Answer is: what BT want you to see. BT Standard pricing is on their website, but hidden in the pricing information section, which doesn't have all those smiling faces you see on the main site! The problem with privatisation is that in adverts these companies are not lieing, but are not telling what is the whole truth either! Add to that the fact that BT want to spend as little as possible on the up-keep of the network, a network which it must let other companies use! How is this true competition?[/END-RANT] I'm off to cool down now...

[DaveL]

Originally posted by T1nker3ell
...can leave all that hassle with BT.

This seems to be the way, people and other companies bash BT, including Oftel/Ofcom who tie it's hands behind its back!

Originally posted by T1nker3ell BT are never going to be competitive because they are basically being strangled now they have become privatised and if they make a discount even by as much as a pound per month, they are losing about 50 million pounds per month. Thats why they kind of gave with the one hand and took away with the other.

How true! BT must provide a line to the most isolated parts of the country at the same price as to urban areas. Cable companies want the rich pickings. What happened to Ionica? You can't build a second network! Look at mobile phones: We have a quarter of the coverage we could have! And all the government do is make them pay ££££££££££££s for 3G licences which will be passed back to the public!

[T1nker3ell]

What I dont agree with though is basically BT have put their prices up and up and up as much as they have wanted because they havent had any competition. Calls should never have got this expensive.

[squidgy]

What no-one's calculated here is that not only are BT putting up rental by £1, but that by removing their £2.15 call allowance the underlying base rental is going to increase by 43%. Will everyone complain to Ofcom please?

You have a point.

The availability of fixed-price off-peak calls is a red herring as better deals are available from TalkTalk anyway.

I'm confused - are BT offering fixed-price off-peak calls now? Great if you make a small number of very long calls, but not so good if you make a large number of very short calls. Far too many of my friends have answering machines, or don't live on their own.

With BT Together it is now cheaper to make a quick call in the day time than in the evening or weekend. Daytime calls are 3p/min, so anything upto 1min 20s will cost 5p. The same call in the evening will (after 1 July) cost 5.5p. The point is that at present the minimum call charge is 5p, which for evening and weekend calls will go up by 0.5p (for calls less than 5min 30s), making it more expensive for lots of short calls.

Suddenly you see the sense of 1571! But even if they scrapped 1571, people would still have answering machines.

So does getting all three together work out ultimately cheaper? or would you benefit by getting all three seperate?

Umm - point is, if you have a BT phone line, you have lots more choice of dial-up ISP, broadband ISP and phone call carriers than you do with a Telewest or NTL line. But Telewest's and NTL's publicity tends to brush over this point - they compare their own combined packages with combined packages from BT, which often makes cable lines look better than they really are.

Until recently, the one redeeming feature of Telewest and NTL lines was the availability of digital TV. But then Freeview happened - and Top-up TV will be happening soon too - and if that doesn't satisfy your appetite for TV, then Sky Digital's packages aren't so bad these days.

[DaveL]

Originally posted by squidgy
Suddenly you see the sense of 1571!......

I think that's why they made it free! The Orange Answerphone seems just as annoying. As these calls are classed as connected, they charge the minimum amount, which is set to go up.

[T1nker3ell]

Signed up another of my friends to talktalk today, she really only has incoming calls so TalkTalk wont be getting any money out of her, but it means I can call her for free.

Plus I got £10 cos I recommended her and she signed up on the web, wasnt expecting that one.

But also what I found most interesting is that even though they arent charging her anything just for the calls she is using, for the next six months they have given her £2 to spend on calls each month.

Seems like what BT are taking away TalkTalk are trying to give back. Obviously a ploy on their part to steal all the people away from BT who are unhappy with the changes, but fair play to them.

[DaveL]

So BT's tariffs are to be investigated by Ofcom...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3586683.stm
http://www.vnunet.com/News/1154002

[cheeky2004]

I am on BT standard. This is interesting information, and I'm going to look into this. Nice one for posting it, and nice work finding out.

As I said, I use BT standard, so to pay them the least amount of money, then I automatically redirect all my calls through telco which can be signed up for at www.************ This is done without a box, or any prefixes. It automatically does it through the network after you sign up. This means I only pay BT the basic line rental then I get cheaper calls without anything changing. The only thing that changes is that i get two bills, one from bt for the lines, and one from telco for the calls, but the 2 added together are much smaller.

Telco do great internt services too. More you spend on your telephone bill, cheaper the internet is.

If they get rid of Bt standard they are going to hit all these people who currently do what i do. Maybe this is the plan?

have you found out any further information since you posted this thread?

[DaveL]

Originally posted by cheeky2004
have you found out any further information since you posted this thread?

Hi Cheeky.
I haven't got any more info. I'm still waiting for BT to reply to my email I sent them 12 days ago. This will confirm my fears that prices are going up up up.

They did send an automatic acknowledgement saying that they've got a large volume of emails, so I'll give it another few days. If they don't reply, I will be writing to them to explain why this will now be more expensive (as I've already described in this thread).

I don't know whether there's a low user tariff that may be more suitable, but it annoys me that they are forcing everyone onto BT Together. If there is a cheaper tariff, then I have to go out of my way to get on it. The thing is that my two lines are on separate accounts, and the second line has broadband. When BT have their way, the second line will only be used for faxes and the occasional call. This means that the additional line rental that I pay [supposedly] for cheaper calls will be wasted. What's the point in this? People may want lines for receiving calls only, but BT don't want to cater for this!

This is just one industry that has been sold to the private sector by the Tory party. Look what's happening to it!!!

[DaveL]

I've just received my email from BT and it just seems to support what I've been saying throughout this thread. Basically it says that this decision is there to make it "fairer for all". Possibly true, but why should I have to pay more simply because there's some people who make more calls. It's seems that these unlimited call packages mean that those of us who make few or no calls on our line(s) are now picking up the tab for the rest!

In my email I pointed out that this is a second line which is used to use up the inclusive call allowance, and therefore will not be used (alot) after these changes come into effect. This gets no acknowledgement in the reply.

What is mentioned is:

• 5.5p for an hour (evenings and weekends)
• 3p/min during the day
• lower price calls to mobiles
• lower international rates

All of which are of no benefits on my second line!

So unlike BT, I have given both sides of the coin, allowing anyone reading this to make an informed decision. There is also no acknowledgement that short calls will now cost more.

What's wrong with paying for what you use, whether it be gas, electric, phone etc. It's quite simple, a standing charge/line rental is fixed, and then you pay for each unit individually. If they want to offer a reduction for long calls, then that seems fair, but to up the price for others is plainly not!

Remember when they said "It's good to talk", well now they should say "It's expensive not to talk".

[cheeky2004]

Dave

That sounds like a standard 'lets try and plam him off and hope he gives up' email reply from BT. I hate it when they do that.

Before I say anymore, I will say, I encorage anyone reading this to push push push forward and write letter after letter if you have a complaint about any company. I won a case with Hertz rent a car recently, a feud that has been going on for 18 months. they charged me 360euros for damage which didnt happen, fuel which we had replaced, etc etc, then ireland head office tried to palm me off. I wrote letter after letter and now have all my money back. 100's have had similar problems with hertz and have never won. Why? They gave up after the first 'standard' reply...

So it goes without saying...write again, write again, and if you have a case and a point to make, stick to it. It's the only way we will ever get better customer service and reverse the trend of 'ripping us off'

Why do we pay the most for cars in Europe? Why do the Americans get 100,000 mile warranties and feul at 25% of ours...Why? because we don't fight, too many people moan moan moan but never actually get their finger out and complain.... if more complained, more would have to be done about the problems.

http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/n...hreadid=12892#

wow im quite impressed with that rant!

Dave, onto your BT line rentals. Information has come onto my desk that we are about to enter a new phase int he telecom privatisation market. You will soon be able to buy your line rental, yes you read right, your LINE rental from other companies even though its a BT line. I think this is to take the monopoly away from BT.
What effect this will have on the line service I don't know. Maybe like if you buy your electric from British gas and then try to get a new meter replaced.You are palmed off. Powergen deny its theirs, british gas say its powergen who own the meter... you can imagine the problems after a storm and you want your telephone line reattaching to the pole!

I currently don't have anymore information about all this but when I do, and when the services are available I'm planning on including them on www.************
I think the way it works is that other companies can purchase the lines from BT at wholesale prices and then mark them up slightly and resell them to us, but at less than bt charge us for their own lines.

Hopefully those of us who will lose the BT standard line packages can then purchase our lines from the same company as our calls, back to one bill again, but cheaper.

If anyone else manages to find out more info, please pass it on.

Simon

www.************
Offering cheaper calls to anyone, anywhere, mobile, landline and businesses.

JUSTDIAL, TELCO, & COMPREHENSIVE SEARCHES SOME OF THE BEST VALUE PHONECARDS PHONECARDS ON THE NET, IN PARTNERSHIP WITH PHONECARDS ONLINE

[DaveL]

Originally posted by cheeky2004
That sounds like a standard 'lets try and plam him off and hope he gives up' email reply from BT. I hate it when they do that.

Too right and I won't accept it! My letter will be going off to them soon and I advise anyone else in the same boat to do the same.

Incidently, I might add that if you type in 'bt standard' into Google, this thread appears on the first page of results about half way down, so hopefully others will find us! If you've just found us, welcome to The Scream!

[DaveL]

I've just received a glossy letter detailing the changes. On the questions page the first question is as follows:

Q. Why are we introducing these changes?

A. It's all part of our on-going commitment to make things clearer. As customers told us that the Standard Line Rental calling plan was confusing, we're replacing it with the straightforward BT Together Option 1, so you can now enjoy much simpler pricing.

...So we can now enjoy much simpler pricing?!! How do you work that one out?

The bill seems to use the same type of maths that they are using here. I have written to them about this in the past, but no change. You will find that when in credit you have a NEGATIVE credit balance. But a negative credit is actually a (positive) debit, so the bill is all wrong! There are other double-negatives in the bill as well.

Anyway, to get back the subject, the letter just says that the call allowance will be withdrawn. The line rental is going up by £1, but as shown on this thread, it is in reality going up by 43%, something that has been left out of this letter. It even suggests that one of the other options may be suitable! Now if I thought that, don't you think that I would be on it???!!!

[cheeky2004]

I have just received a reply from ofcom/Oftel. They say that they are intending to investigate BT's announcement and the complaints, but cannot comment further on it until they do so.

[DaveL]

I've posted a letter to BT today. I'm wondering whether there are any grounds to complain to the Advertising Standards Authority about all this.

[BexTech]

Before Telewest took over Birmingham Cable, they used to offer great rates.

Line rental was £6 per month when BT's was 9.25

International calls were really cheap.

Fixed line calls were half BT's price.

Call waiting and Call divert option was free.

Lower min charge.

Now Telewest are a rip off.

Charge you for call waiting and Divert option, have call connection charges, evening calls dearer than BT's

International calls exspensive.

And to top it off the Peak rate starts at 06:00 not 08:00

[DaveL]

I've received a reply from Ofcom that says that a formal record of my concerns have been logged.

It also says that Ofcom has announced an own-initiative Competition Act investigation into new BT retail tariff packages. See http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media_office...ws/nr_20040331 for further details.

I have yet to receive any acknowledgement from BT regarding my letter. I have resent it this week.

[cheeky2004]

after writing to bt ages ago complaining of the use of 0870 and also many other things including my dacs box, they now agree to investifate the dacs, and that was weeks ago... )-: everything takes ages with them.
on another note:
I HAVE JUST HEARD ABOUT AN EXCITING NEW TELEPHONE SERVICE DUE TO START ON JUNE 1S FROM A BIG TELECOMS COMPANY IN THE UK (NO NOT BT I CAN ASSURE YOU!!)

FREETALK!

Why is FREETALK the best offer on the market?
• Better than One.Tel because… They don’t offer unlimited FREE calls
to other customers for no monthly charge
• Better than TalkTalk because… They don’t offer FREE local weekend
calls for no monthly charge
• Better than BT because… They offer no FREE calls either free of
charge or on Option 1
• Better than Tele2 because… They offer no FREE calls at all
• Better than Tesco Talk because… They don’t offer FREE calls for no
monthly charge

FREETALK is going to change the telecoms market forever so
make sure you’re ready!

IF ANYONE ON HERE WOULD LIKE ANY FURTHER INFORMATION ON THIS SERVICE FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME DIRECTLY.

cheekysi@telco4u.net

[DaveL]

Non-geographic numbers also fall outside BT Together, it appears that BT will still be allowed to charge the 'standard' price, ie what it costs when on BT Standard. That means that all these companies with 0845 and 087 numbers will be charged at the current rates, even though BT like to trumpet them as local and national rate, respectively!

I totally object to phoning the local garage or electrical retailer on one of these numbers which is charged above what it costs me for a call within my local area, afterall, these numbers only translate to normal geographic numbers.

[drrdf]

Yes I am also very angry about this, yet another dirty commercial trick by BT, which Ofcom let them get away with. This is all part of an integral strategy of dirty commercial tricks because of their continuing domination of the UK domestic telephone market. The idea is to make their calls look cheaper relative to the competition, although of course it is actually an illusion.

I also believe everyone should complain to Ofcom about this and the other issues. Unless enough people complain we will never get any action from Ofcom. They are supposed to have a statutory duty to protect the interests of UK telephone consumers, but they continuously shy away from it and act as BT's protector instead!

Go to http://0870abuse.tripod.com which makes it easier to complain and send your complaint to Ofcom; also send a response to their current consultation about the 0870 etc. NGN scandal. They claim previously that only 20 to 30 people have complained about these dirty tricks of BT! If enough people complain they will not be able to ignore it.

[DaveL]

I wouldn't be too suprised if this isn't part of a bigger plan. Last year they changed BT Together (Option 1) by removing its call allowance and making evening and weekend calls 6p for up to an hour. I wonder whether I was one of the few who moved off it because I realised these changes will actually cost me more. Of course, BT trumpetted that these changes were all good.

It wouldn't suprise me that they have all this planned, and that there will be similar changes in years to come that aren't all that they seem.