Slow Bit-torrent and download speeds - explanaction

[ALSKI]

Hi everyone, my first post here!

Just a (probably not so...) quick word on the slow download speeds and bit-torrent speeds that so many people seem to be mentioning.

The slow bit-torrent speeds ARE due to Tiscali blocking ports, the VAST majority of ports actually.

This happens when you have passed your 30gb monthly cap, possibly 35gb by my measurements, but anyway...after passing that limit, Tiscali 'throttles' your connection by restricting pretty much all ports EXCEPT:

PORT 80 - (World Wide Web HTTP)
PORT 110 - (Post Office Protocol - Version 3)
&
Possibly PORTS 20 & 21 (FTP)

-not sure about 20 & 21, I had intermittent luck with those two the last time I tried, which was a while ago, and here's why.....

Yes if you are getting Tiscali's throttled bit-torrent speeds, you can just change the 'listen' port to 80 or 110 on your Bit-torrent client settings, HOWEVER, if you do this you will most likely incur the WRATH of the all-mighty DOOOOM that is Tiscali's "you have exceeded your download limit" E-mail & accompanying letter.
I wish I'd kept mine, it makes interesting reading, especially as I thought my connection was "Unlimited", mmm! Remember that word?, well its not true, you are CAPed, you are ALL caped I'm afraid even if you haven’t actually been told or warned.

As just a small side note I am wondering if it is actually legal to call it an "internet" connection when it is actulley a network service that has Ports 0 -19, 19-79, 81-109 & 111-49,151 (the actual Port list created by the IANA (the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority) Restricted in such a horrible manner….i mean Web, Email and FTP (FTP Maybe!!!) ONLY - this is sooo not the INTERNET, it the WWW with a bells and half a whistle on.

Anyway enough said, hope this was helpful, and if your feeling brave then thank god for PORT 80 and enjoy those fast bit-torrents :-)

[amg_r0x0rz]

I'm with tiscali and I use port 6881 for a private Torrent site called www.torrentleech.org . I get 60 kb/s on every torrent and I'm on 512 so that is my top speed .

[slowboy]

Am I doing something wrong?

I have fowarded all my ports (I get a green light on my client which is utorrent) but i still only get 5-8kbps. I am on Tiscali 2mb unlimited so what is my issue?

Can anyone help as i am getting very frustrated.

[Zer02004]

Hi Slowboy. First of all, ensure that you use a non standard BT port (A lot of trackers will simply ignore the 68xx range now). I use 443 which was pretty good until DPIwas switched on.
Go to PortForward, click on your router name and model and you'll find full instructions on setting it up to work with various apps and games etc including BT.

If, after your router is correctly set, you have a healthy torrent and you've tried a few different ports, turn on encryption. I know that µTorrent supports encryption but I haven't got a clue as to how to initialise it.
Very basically, with encryption enabled, your ISP can't really throttle you because DPI cannot access the traffic data to analyse it. There is one slight drawback though and that is that you can't access those seeds/peers who are unencrypted (Not strictly true but it is wise to go completely encrypted).
But, I enjoy constant 150 KB plus with a healthy torrent and that's with my ISP using Ellacoyas and other associated dirty tricks.

One day very soon, this throttling/shaping/capping nonsense is going to rear up and bite most UK ISPs right on the nose. The only thing I'm unsure about on this matter is whether that reaction will first be caused by demand for the bandwidth hungry "next generation" of internet services or by a punter very publicly proving mis-selling/contract breaches on the part of UK ISPs in a court of law. At the moment, my money is on the latter.

[sarge]

Zer02004,

what do you mean by turning on encryption. i am currently azureus, heve changed my port but i still get approx 3-6kbps download. am using 1Mb unlimited.
Cheers

sarge

[Zer02004]

In Azureus, open Tools>>>Options>>>Connection>>>Transport Encryption and ensure that "Require Encrypted Transport" is checked.

[sarge]

Cheers Zer02004

[Rockspider]

I think it is a joke if Tiscali are doing this !
Where does it say they can do this !
I have noticed my speeds are a joke in the last few days.
There adverts says "unlimited" !!! lmao
Fair usage blah blah
Where does it say "Limited on torrents" ??
Who can please recomend a "Good" service provider who does not do this

[Zer02004]

AOL, Zen, ACE or UKFSN spring to mind.

[Rockspider]

Thankyou for the links Zero
Ace and UKFSN both have some good deals.

[Zer02004]

As always, do your homework and don't be too eager to grab at the first deal that comes along.

[justinius23]

i am in the uk and am on a tiscali 2mb(256kB) down, 256kb (32Kb) up, 'unlimited' connection.

between 6pm and 11.30pm i have noticed my download speeds are maxing out at like 10kB/s. after this they shoot up to 200+, which i am pretty happy with.

apparently tiscali operate a fair usage policy which defines peak times as 6-11pm. they also state that users who abuse these times will recieve an e-mail informing them of having been moved to some dedicated server for p2p users. i have recieved no e-mail.

i could live with this if the speeds dropped slightly, but this seems to be taking the ****.

i am using utorrent with encryption enabled, open port (34210) with green light, connectable and tested it with a very well seeded torrent from torrentleech. still crappy speeds.

anyone got any ideas?
i thought encryption bypassed throttling (if others have it turned on)

[DavidC]

Tisc are improving their service as detailed below it was included in the email advising the new ADSL Max service - very easily and probably expected to be missed by customers

Improving your speeds
To support the launch of our Tiscali Max service and to ensure that all customers
benefit from consistently good web-browsing speeds throughout the day, we will be
making improvements to our network. These will optimise speeds for web-browsing,
emailing and online gaming during peak hours and work by giving automatic priority
to these activities when there are lots of people online. File sharing applications
may take a little longer to download during busy periods as a result, but will quickly
catch up during quiet periods. Trials have shown a significant improvement in overall
customer experience. We have updated our Terms and Conditions to reflect these changes
and these will take effect in 14 days.

Basically they have you by the short and curlies!!!

You do have 14 days to decline the new terms and ask cancellation dept to move i.e. get a MAC.

[daydreamer]

I left tiscali cos they suck but thinking back they were ok for downloads.

Now im on BT my downloads are still slow, maybe every isp are limiting our sh!t, i saw something on sky news the other day and net providers will be censoring the internet so the last free place on earth is dying

:zap:

[justinius23]

Tisc are improving their service as detailed below it was included in the email advising the new ADSL Max service - very easily and probably expected to be missed by customers

Improving your speeds
To support the launch of our Tiscali Max service and to ensure that all customers
benefit from consistently good web-browsing speeds throughout the day, we will be
making improvements to our network. These will optimise speeds for web-browsing,
emailing and online gaming during peak hours and work by giving automatic priority
to these activities when there are lots of people online. File sharing applications
may take a little longer to download during busy periods as a result, but will quickly
catch up during quiet periods. Trials have shown a significant improvement in overall
customer experience. We have updated our Terms and Conditions to reflect these changes
and these will take effect in 14 days.

Basically they have you by the short and curlies!!!

You do have 14 days to decline the new terms and ask cancellation dept to move i.e. get a MAC.

Originally Posted by DavidC

thanks man, i never check my tiscali e-mail acount. it seems file sharers don't have a leg to stand on if they want to stay with these guys.

i'll have to think about this as their speeds with torrents have been fine for me at all other times of day.

[Batchfiles]

I assume that if you have already been placed on the ‘bad boy pipe’ then changing the port and enabling encryption will make no difference. The pipe itself will have a limit and whatever you do in your client you will not be able to improve upon the restrictions imposed by the pipe.

[Zer02004]

Does Tiscali actually operate a "bad boys pipe" or are other controls employed?

[Batchfiles]

Hmmm, maybe my assumption is based on another false assumption – I understood, perhaps incorrectly that Tiscali did operate a ‘bad boys pipe’. Certainly using port 443 and enabling encryption in Azureus has made no difference to my speed; I’m still crawling along at 20 -30KB. Other ports I’ve tried make no difference either.

Is there another way then they could be limiting speed that port changing/encryption have no effect upon?

[Zer02004]

I don't know what controls are in effect - Just that it's never actually been confirmed that a BBP is in use.
It's more likely to be a few hundred YTS employees with jumpers in something similar to an old fashioned telephone exchange.

[justinius23]

^just before i left tiscali they sent me this e-mail:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Customer,

This email contains important information regarding your broadband account.

Your broadband Internet usage has been highlighted as exceptionally high
during peak periods and is affecting the service that we provide to other
customers.

All of our users have the right to an acceptable quality of service, and
to ensure this Tiscali employs a Fair Use Policy
(http://www.tiscali.co.uk/fup). This gives Tiscali
the right to manage customers whose usage adversely affects our network
and the service of other customers. This is referred to in clause 8.4 of
the Terms and Conditions of our Broadband service (note clauses 5.9 in
the old Terms and Conditions if you registered before 2005) and
detailed in our Fair Use Policy (http://www.tiscali.co.uk/fup).

You may upload and download as you wish outside the peak hours;
however we ask that you are considerate when using the internet
during the peak period. Peak hours are from 6pm to 11pm Monday to
Sunday. To avoid any further heavy use warnings
we strongly recommend you adhere to the following guidelines:

o) Do not download large files during the peak periods

o) Do not use Peer-to-Peer file sharing software during peak
periods (e.g. Kazaa, BitTorrent)

o) Try and keep internet use to email and web browsing during these times.


If you do not reduce your usage during these peak times we
will manage your usage. This means that you will share
bandwidth with other heavy users during peak times instead of
sharing bandwidth with normal users. Your service will continue
to be unlimited, but by sharing bandwidth with other heavy users
you are likely to experience slower speeds during peak times.

If you have a query regarding this letter then you can
email broadbandservices@uk.tiscali.com

Important Note: When emailing please use your Tiscali email
address (username@tiscali.co.uk) and use the following reference
in the subject line "FUP Warning1". It may prove difficult for us
to process any queries or requests without this information.

Yours Sincerely


Tiscali Broadband Team

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

this is utter rubbish. my speeds at peak times were pathetic for weeks. they were 'managing' my usage before they even sent this e-mail.

anyway, i got sick of it, told them to go forth and multiply, got my mac and within two weeks i had successfully switched to ace internet. the only problem i have had is periodic connection dropouts as my adslmax service works out the maximum bandwidth my line can support.

[Batchfiles]

If you do not reduce your usage during these peak times we
will manage your usage. This means that you will share
bandwidth with other heavy users during peak times instead of
sharing bandwidth with normal users. Your service will continue
to be unlimited, but by sharing bandwidth with other heavy users
you are likely to experience slower speeds during peak times.

Yes this is perhaps where my assumption came from.

[DavidC]

This is starting to go off topic but I'll follow the flow.

The FUP warning sytem is a vague exscuse at total usage monitoring. If you don't have a router you are reliant on Tiscali's poor useage reporting tool to gauge just what you downloaded and when.

I broke FUP once for 3 hours I then strictly adhered to FUP times, after that one time lapse I received my FUP 1 about 4 days later. At this point I widened my own FUP too 15 minutes either side of Tiscali's 6am to 11pm i.e. 5.45 to 11.15. I still received two further FUP warnings accepted the third and got a MAC code. It only took 14 days from FUP1 to FUP3 but then I was playing a game and they behaved exactly as expected, I have PRTG router logs showing for the period I received FUP warnings I was only connecting at dial up speeds inside the FUP times.
Draw your own conclusion - mind you I took the FUP at face value
'You may upload and download as you wish outside the peak hours'
So I did - got 16G/day!!

[Batchfiles]

The fact you were able to get 16G/day is the important part as far as my first assumption above goes. I can only manage a max of 40 KB of torrent downloads no matter what time of day or night I’m connected.
I don’t use a router, I’m using a clean install of Win XP with no other programs running other than Norton, and have done all the other checks outlined on Tiscali’s forum.

Up to a few days before getting my FUP I was getting 800KB+ regularly. Then it dropped dramatically to the speed I have now; which leads me to think I’m being restricted ‘across the board’ as it were, irrespective of the time of day I’m connected. Hence my assumption of being on a ‘restricted’ pipe.

I hope I haven’t moved this off topic; I’m discussing torrent speed still and am curious to know if others are having, have an explanation for or have solved a similar problem to mine.

[DavidC]

Sorry if my off topic comment upset anyone - the Topic read to me as drifting towards FUP bashing rather than solving a problem which I don't think you will get round unless Tiscali choose to permit P2P again or you bite the bullet and move to an ISP which does.

As for my downloads I just used a method they don't block - didn't matter what the file was - just a means to an end for me.

[Zer02004]

.... which leads me to think I’m being restricted ‘across the board’.....

Originally Posted by Batchfiles

But are you being restricted across the board? If other protocols such as FTP and HTTP etc are performing as expected then I very much doubt that a BBP is in operation.
The use of tools such as Ellacoyas allow the ISP to inspect all packets that are transferred (DPI) and deal with them according to content and origination etc. For a while, data encryption got around this but ISPs are waking up to this.

[DavidC]

But are you being restricted across the board? If other protocols such as FTP and HTTP etc are performing as expected then I very much doubt that a BBP is in operation.

Originally Posted by Zer02004

I used HTTP downloads to Max my connection.

Like you all I tested various P2P clients and networks (encrypted if possible) all showing poor speeds until early morning terminating sometime late morning and then the slowdown takes over.
Whatever they are doing it's very effective - for now anyway!

[Batchfiles]

The problem with my connection, which lead me to think I was on a restricted pipe is that the speed is very slow 24 hours a day. There is no increase during the night.

[Zer02004]

If you are connected via IPStream you can use the BT Speedtester. As this doesn't use the ISPs infrastructure, any difference in speed here points the finger directly at the ISP.
Read the instructions carefully before use.

[DavidC]

The problem with my connection, which lead me to think I was on a restricted pipe is that the speed is very slow 24 hours a day. There is no increase during the night.

Originally Posted by Batchfiles

I had a poor 2M speed for 3 weeks before Tiscali sorted it out I struggled to get over 1.2M from speed test sites this was more ofted 0.9M and even dropped to 350KB from BT speedtester this was about 10AM so should not have been a peak load blip.
However, as you are testing torrents have you tried a fast file i.e. openoffice to test the speed? If I have a slow torrent I try downloading this to see if the torrent is slow or if its the interweb connection. This test file was v.slow on Tiscali but is always up to 200K within 30 sec now I've moved.

[Batchfiles]

I’m sticking to the FUP now and will try downloading openoffice after 11 this evening; I’ll let you know what the result is.

Thanks Zero2004, I’ll try the BT Speedtest. I need to figure out how to connect to it first though, the instructions aren’t all that easy to follow. How do I enter the required login in the userID field when I can’t find one?